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To: rising tide
It is all we can do after all.

Ah, that infamous BoM line...the one that is diametrically opposed to everything the Apostle Paul ever stood for since his conversion (on the other hand, it represents everything he ever stood for prior to his conversion). Most of the BoM is either harmless myth (theologically speaking only) or matches the Bible word for word or is pretty close concept for concept. But not that Nephite verse--the one that includes that phrase, "all we can do."

It is the impossible burden to carry. It is the elephant on the knapsack. It is the knee-buckling standard for which no person, save Jesus Christ, could truly adhere to. This verse is the "Continental Divide" that sets apart and keeps the BoM from being considered any kind of true Christian document.

The verse is 2 Nephi 25:23--"we are saved by grace, after all we can do."

For the latter-day saint, grace kicks in only after all he or she can do. And what saint has ever in the history of the world testified that he or she has done everything they could do?

No, the testament of the Bible is that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). But according to 2 Nephi 25:23, grace is the ambulance that will take you home as soon as you finish the million-mile marathon. It negates grace to the extent that even a General Conference speaker in April, 1950--Henry D. Moyle--boldly declared (in contradistinction to Ephesians 2:8-9), "We shall not be saved by grace alone."

Another general authority declared, "For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23.) Truly we are redeemed by the atoning blood of the Savior of the world, but only after each has done all he can to work out his own salvation.-Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye In Holy Places, p.236

Saint, have you done all you can do? No. Therefore, Mormon grace eludes you; yet godly grace does not. If grace were merited favor, you would turn the very word on its head, for it means unmerited favor. It means, "gift."

If my 10-family member Christmas were a Christmas based upon 2 Nephi 25:23, the dialogue would run something like this:

"Thanks, dad, for the presents."

"Your welcome, son."

"What do I have to do now to merit them?"

"You don't, son, they were gifts because I love you."

"No, really, dad, what do I have to do?"

"Son, they are gifts. I initiated them. I chose them. I selected them for those I love. Even if you could afford them, which there is no way in the world you could, I would not let you acquire them. This is not a business transaction. It's love; it's family conciliation; they reflect my love for you; they mark your connectivity to who your parents are."

"Dad, are you just telling me I've gotta do all I can do the rest of my life to try to pay all these gifts off, and then you'll give them to me for keeps?"

"Son, you're not listening. In fact, you're starting to offend me. You're offending my gracious nature; you're not honoring your father. You're assuming these gifts are so low on the totem pole price-wise that your labor could qualify you and thereby purchase worthiness. Son, to be fully honest with you, these gifts were purchased with blood money that is not your sweat and blood, but that of another. Son, you are worthy already by virtue of our blood relationship."

So how does this fully relate to living responsibly? LDS apostle says "we are responsible by conduct and by covenants to live the standards of the gospel." (Full quote: "Our critics' belief, based on the Bible, holds that man is saved by grace alone. Theirs is by far the easier way. Our position, also based on the Bible but strengthened by other scriptures, holds that we are saved by grace 'after all we can do,' (2 Ne. 25:23.) and we are responsible by conduct and by covenants to live the standards of the gospel." - Boyd K. Packer, "The Peaceable Followers of Christ," Ensign, Apr. 1998, p. 65).

But the gospel literally means "good news." News is not a standard, a law, a precept, an ordinance, to obey, it's news. Jesus dying on the cross is front-page news, a historical event; you ARE forgiven is front-page news, not another "thou shalt"; Jesus rising from the dead is good news, not more sweaty merit badges you have notch on your spiritual belt.

94 posted on 04/23/2004 11:46:39 AM PDT by Colofornian (Tis amazin': LDS understand proxy in baptizing the dead, but do not view JC as their personal proxy)
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To: Colofornian
So, would you say the Mormons believe the gift can be taken back?
96 posted on 04/23/2004 11:55:19 AM PDT by Wrigley
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To: Colofornian; rising tide
Colofornian please share your Lutheran doctrine?

So you have no repentance, baptism, commandments to obey?
97 posted on 04/23/2004 12:17:22 PM PDT by restornu (When man begins to understand, he will learn to love, when his love is understood, there is peace)
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To: Colofornian
Why is your group so reluctant to address the topic of this thread?
114 posted on 04/23/2004 12:58:01 PM PDT by rising tide (Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.)
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