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To: firebrand
So keeping the minutiae the same is not the same as the rule about teachers in a Catholic school not subverting the faith of their charges. You don't get back to essentials by going back to the Latin mass. You get back to essentials by getting back to essentials.

I guess we're not going to agree on this, but I think you should do some research about what has happened to the traditional Catholic Mass since the time of Vatican II. The Catholic Mass is not "minutiae." Even to suggest so is sacrilegious. The traditional Catholic Mass of all time which is offered in the Latin language IS "the essentials." It's the very definition of "essentials." It is the reason and purpose for our existence: to offer to God fitting adoration, reparation, thanksgiving and supplication.

If you're too angry about what Cardinal Egan is doing to this parish to think about any other issues, you should take a look at the recent threads about Cardinal Egan shutting down the National Shrine of St. Ann in Manhattan, the location where the indult Latin Mass is offered, so that he can sell the property to the US Post Office. You will see that his modus operandi is all of one piece.

My entire point is that the sharper the scalpel with which one goes into an argument, the better chances one has of getting to the truth. Not all rules and regulations are equal.

I agree with your line of thinking, but you may be getting the cause and effect backwards. As you say, if we want to be effective, we cannot afford to waste energy tilting at every windmill. So if we want to strike at the root of all the cancer in the Church, the root cause of the many crises we see surrounding us, from the breakdown of religious life, to the corruption of Catholic schools, to the scandals in the priesthood, to the lack of Mass attendance on Sunday, to the abandonment of sexual morality, where are we going to find the source of all these evils? The problems at this parish school are clearly just symptoms of a pervasive problem. So where is the root underlying cause? If you haven't thought that out, then you may not have a very good handle on which problems to attack first.

57 posted on 04/07/2004 12:18:03 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
I've thought it out to the extent I'm convinced that it has nothing to do with keeping every detail of regulations, as the Pharisees preached. Then we are like the Orthodox Jews or the Muslims, commendable in their zeal perhaps, but sometimes missing the essence of the faith through all their concentration on detail.

Many Catholics that I know well, in their ardor to be pleasing to God, have gone overboard on the less important matters while neglecting such major matters as the daily--hourly!--need to focus on the message. My point is that there is no connection, except for the vague one that both endeavors proceed from zeal. One is a dead end--and in fact alienates other Catholics who are faithful in going to mass in the vernacular and feel that they are somehow being told there is a "better" way--and the other is the Road. Straight and narrow, but not in terms of what day we bless the chrism.

God is a spirit, and they that worship Him worship Him in spirit and in truth. It's harder, in a way, because it changes from day to day, or rather is revealed to be slightly different from the day before, as our spirituality deepens, but I'm convinced it is better than arguing about liturgy.

As to what the problem springs from ultimately, it's easy as well as accurate to say the Evil One--from those who intentionally subvert our inner faith and its outer manifestations. And then secondarily from the unthinking sheep who wander after these folks in search of their own temporal gratifications. We have to become activists and "reverse-Gramsci" the world--not something that will be accomplished overnight.

58 posted on 04/07/2004 12:39:37 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: Maximilian
I guess we're not going to agree on this, but I think you should do some research about what has happened to the traditional Catholic Mass since the time of Vatican II. The Catholic Mass is not "minutiae." Even to suggest so is sacrilegious. The traditional Catholic Mass of all time which is offered in the Latin language IS "the essentials." It's the very definition of "essentials." It is the reason and purpose for our existence: to offer to God fitting adoration, reparation, thanksgiving and supplication.

Yes, it's so obvious that ONLY Tridentine Catholics are REAL Catholics. All those other Rites, Ukrainian, Maronites, etc. are just plain WRONG. They should have gotten with the "mass of all time." [/sarcasm off]

Small clue for the Pharisees out there: There is more than one way to skin a cat. Try to figure out the TRUE essentials of the faith. A validly said mass is a validly said mass. THAT is what is "essential." No matter WHICH ritual. [As long as it's an APPROVED ritual!]

And any Catholic who thinks that if you can change around the tradition of "no meat on Fridays" that means you can change around your opinions about abortion, is a BOOB...plain in simple. They NEVER understood what was essential. They were mere CHILDREN in that they did not learn what it means to be an adult in the faith. [Hint: Your education shouldn't stop as soon as you get confirmed.]

75 posted on 04/19/2004 10:47:06 AM PDT by gemoftheocean
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