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To: nika
Check with others on this site. I have been saying for two years that the Novus Ordo, while valid and licit, is nevertheless dangerous to the faith because it suppresses and subverts the Catholic dogmas of the Real Presence and sacrificial atonement.

You obviously believe that if a Mass is valid and legal, it must therefore be good. Not true. It may be valid and legal--and be a bad liturgy as well, especially if it was introduced for all the wrong reasons and damages the faith.

A well-tuned Mercedes and a klunker with a bad transmission are both valid and legal cars. But I wouldn't want to drive the klunker cross-country. The old and new Masses are both valid and legal. But one supports the faith, the other destroys it.
262 posted on 04/27/2004 10:41:16 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
I have been saying for two years that the Novus Ordo, while valid and licit, is nevertheless dangerous to the faith because it suppresses and subverts the Catholic dogmas of the Real Presence and sacrificial atonement.

ultima, just curious. Why do you consider these passages from the Novus Ordo to subvert and suppress the Real Presence and sacrificial atonement?

We beseech You therefore, O Lord, that having been appeased you might accept this offering of our humble familial service: and that you might give order to our days in Your peace, and also that you might bid that we be snatched away from eternal condemnation and be numbered in the flock of your elect. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Which sacrificial offering, O God, may you deign in every way to make blessed, accepted, ratified, spiritually dedicated, and acceptable: so that it may be made for us the Body and Blood of your most beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. Through Christ our Lord. Amen. (Eucharistic Prayer I)

Wherefore, O Lord, mindful of the blessed Passion of the same Christ Thy Son, our Lord, and likewise mindful of His resurrection from the nether realm of the dead, but also His glorious ascension into the heavens, we Your servants but also Your holy people, offer up unto Your beautiful majesty from Your own gifts and grants, the sacrificial victim which is pure, the holy victim, the victim stainless, the holy Bread of life everlasting, and the Chalice of eternal salvation.

With a propitious and tranquil countenance deign to look with consideration upon them, and regard them as acceptable, just as You deigned to regard as acceptable the gifts of Your just servant Abel, and the sacrifice of Abraham, our Patriarch, and the holy sacrifice, the unblemished sacrificial victim which your high priest Melchisedech offered up to You (ibid.)

And so, Father, we bring you these gifts. We ask you to make them holy by the power of your Spirit, that they may become the Body + and Blood of your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at whose command we celebrate these mysteries. (Eucharistic Prayer III)
Father, calling to mind the death Thy Son endured for our salvation, his glorious resurrection and ascension into heaven, and ready to greet him when he comes again, we offer you in thanksgiving this holy and living sacrifice. (ibid.)
Look with favor on your Church's offering, and see the Victim whose death has reconciled us to yourself. Grant that we, who are nourished by the Body and Blood of Thy Son, may be filled with his Holy Spirit, and become one body, one spirit in Christ. (ibid.)
Lord, may this Victim, which has made our peace with you, advance the peace and salvation of all the world. (ibid.)

Father, we now celebrate this memorial of our redemption. We recall Christ's death, his descent among the dead, his resurrection, and his ascension to your right hand; and, looking forward to his coming in glory, we offer you His Body and Blood, the acceptable sacrifice which brings salvation to the whole world.

O Lord, look upon this Victim which you have given to your Church, and generously grant to all who will share this one bread and chalice in order that, having been collected into one body by the Holy Spirit, they are made perfect in Christ the living victim, to the praise of Thy glory. (Eucharistic Prayer IV)

O God, who bequeathed to us a memorial of Thy Passion under a wondrous sacrament, grant, we implore, that we may venerate the sacred mysteries of Thy Body and Blood, in such a way as to sense within us constantly the fruit of Thy redemption. (Collecta, Corpus Christi)
Cause us, we beseech you, O Lord, to be filled with the eternal enjoyment of your divinity, which the worldly reception of Your precious Body and Blood prefigures. ( Post communionem, Corpus Christi)
Attend, we beg you, O Lord, so that, according to the promise of your Son, the Holy Spirit will reveal to us more abundantly the hidden sacred mystery of this sacrifice, and will graciously unlock for us all truth. (Super oblata, Pentecost)
Let this sacrificial offering cleanse our sins, we beg, O Lord, and for celebrating the paschal feasts let it sanctify the bodies and minds of Thy faithful. (Super oblata, 2nd Sunday of Lent)
We are bringing in to place upon your altars, O Lord, the gifts of our service, which, having been appeased and as you take them up, you make into the sacrament of our redemption. (Super oblata, 4th Sunday of Ordinary Time)
O Lord, having been appeased, receive our gifts and, we beg, grant that by sanctifying them they will be for us the means of salvation. (Super oblata, 3rd Sunday of Ordinary Time)
Grant to us, we beg, O Lord, to make frequent use of these mysteries worthily, for, as often as the commemoration of this sacrifice is celebrated, the work of our redemption is carried on. (Super oblata, 2nd Sunday of Ordinary Time)
Lord, receive the gifts brought for the revelation of your beloved Son, so that the oblation of your faithful may transform into His sacrifice, who having felt compassion desired to wash away the sins of the world. (Super oblata, Baptism of the Lord)
Be Thou appeased, O Lord, we beseech Thee, by the prayers of our humility and by our sacrificial offerings, and, where no favorable points of merits suffice for us, succor us by the helps of Thy indulgence. (Super oblata, 2nd Sunday of Advent)

As far as I can tell no one could reasonably say that these passages do not clearly teach that the Mass is a propitiatory sacrifice and that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

P.S. I translated the excerpts from EP III-IV myself, and ICEL sure made a mess of them! They managed to twist the second paragraph from EP IV so that it can be interpreted that the sacrifice given to the Church is in fact the faithful, "a living sacrifice of praise". Good thing the ICEL mess will be replaced with a REAL translation soon.

266 posted on 04/28/2004 4:58:48 PM PDT by gbcdoj (Et ecce ego vobiscum sum omnibus diebus usque ad consummationem saeculi)
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