Posted on 03/26/2004 6:36:22 AM PST by Pyro7480
LOL! You tink they would have caught on and just put in a floor that could be mopped down. Idiots.
That having been said, the proposed church building is a monstrosity. Not a case of heresy or heterodoxy, just colossally poor architectural taste and judgment. Just one Elk's opinion.
AND, if the pope himself can commit PRUDENTIAL (not dogmatic) error, so can the pizza guy who writes the checks.
I heard them sing when I was in Rome back in the 60s, but (1) I don't really remember what I heard, and (2) I was too young to appreciate any nuances anyhow.
Michael Rose got the idea that Ave Maria has a reputation for embracing authentic Catholic culture and tradition by three means.
First, Michael Rose IS Catholic and would know Catholicism when he sees it.
Second, Rose does not mistake the chronic grumpiness that IS the schism du jour for the eternal truth that is Catholicism. Whining, moaning, groaning and ummmm, ummmmm, vitching are not Catholicism.
Third, Rose is not in schism and so he knows better than those impudent few who have fallen for the schism.
Have you read Michael Rose's books, "The Renovation Manipulation" and "Ugly as Sin"? Michael Rose has a degree in architecture. He has studied the issue of church architecture in modern America probably more than anyone else. He has earned the right to be taken seriously. And he is using objective standards to judge. It's not simply a matter of taste. This church does not meet the objective standards for anything approximating "traditional Catholic culture." But it does meet the standards for "fantasy of a megalomaniac," just like the "Crystal Cathedral" of that televangelist in Orange, CA.
Sorry, but as usual, your "three means" don't mention even 1 word about the subject under discussion -- Ave Maria. Instead it is the usual ad hominem attacks on the poster. Fine. Say whatever you like about me. But just let it be noted that you had absolutely no response whatsoever to the fact that Ave Maria does NOT have a reputation as anything approaching "traditional."
And as far as "hijacking threads," let it also be noted that this thread is about one more neo-Catholic monstrosity, and you admit that it is a "monstrosity." That was the topic of discussion. And let me also point out that I've been saying for a long time, every time the topic of Ave Maria comes up, that this is a monumental folly. I expect better of you than to believe otherwise. Can you really honestly claim that a new "Catholic" school that accepts federal funding and has a Division I football program is going to turn out any better than all the existing "Catholic" schools that accept federal funding and have Division I football programs? And if you can, then perhaps you can also explain why Christendom and St. Thomas Aquinas College made the error of NOT going down that road?
As far as Fr. Fessio goes, this is the man who made the claim that we do not need to interpret Vatican II in light of all previous Catholic tradition. Instead we need to interpret all previous Catholic tradition in light of Vatican II. This is a tailor-made recipe for on-going non-stop Hegelian revolution. Every new innovation creates a ex post facto re-interpretation of everything that was believed before. This is possibly the most dangerous statement made since Vatican II. You cannot call such a man "traditional." And I'm sure that he does not call himself "traditional." So to say the Fr. Fessio is not a "traditional Catholic" is to do no more than state the obvious facts.
Here are the articles you're interested in:
> Gregorian Chant: How and Why It Was Strangled in its Own Cradle
> Great Music in the Churches – And Why the Church Should Listen
> Liturgical Music: “Here Is the Reform that the Church Needs”
> New Liturgies. Bishop Piero Marini doesn’t like TV
> Polyphonic and Gregorian Chant. The Last Bastion at Rome’s Basilica of St. Mary Major
"The coup de grace came in 1997 with the firing of the Sistina’s director, Maestro Domenico Bartolucci, an extraordinary interpreter of the great Roman tradition of sacred music."
Here is the item from Latin Mass Magazine, Summer 2002, pg. 9:
Goodbye, Good Music
From 1956 to 1997, Monsignor Domenico Bartolucci was music director of the Sistine Chapel, the "Schola Cantorum" of Papal Masses, in the glorious tradition of Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina and Lorenzo Perosi. He is now one of the most famous casualties of the liturgical reform adopted in the wake of the Second Vatican Council. To the enemies of tradition, he is a nuisance; and they have succeeded in neutralizing him. At the age of 85, in good shape and proud of his genuine Tuscan character, he keeps busy by touring the country to direct his compositions of sacred music, such as "Missa Jubilaei" of 1950.
He considers himself an exile and marginalized. Whatever happened to Monsignor Bartolucci whom Pope Pius XII had made an "ad vitam" (for life) director of the Sistine Chapel? Vatican Council II changed all that. "I was never happy about the new liturgy," reveals Monsignor Bartolucci in an interview for The Latin Mass. "My compositions, as well as Palestrina's and Perosi's, seem to be in contrast with the new Mass. The Church doesn't realize what a great treasure she is losing by giving up Gregorian and polyphonic music." Never at ease with the liturgical reforms of Vatican II, Bartolucci was viewed by many as an inconvenient personality. "I have never celebrated the new Mass, and continue to use the Missal of Pius V," he says. Five years ago, on the occasion of the Eucharistic Congress in Bologna, rock star Bob Dylan, hat over his eyes, sang rock music in front of the Pope. Bartolucci was furious. "Had I been Cardinal Biffi [Archbishop of Bologna] I would have resigned."
At all major liturgical ceremonies, the Sistine Chapel Choir would have to take turns with other choirs. He is also very critical of Bishop Piero Marini, Master of Pontifical Ceremonies. His outspokenness cost him dearly. In 1997, while on a tour in Japan, he was dismissed and replaced by Monsignor Giuseppe Liberto of the Cathedral Choir of Monreale in Sicily. In his defense, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, expressed his solidarity and urged him to "resist." It is worth noting Cardinal Ratzinger's expertise in music: his brother George was director of the Cathedral Choir of Ratisbona, where Perosi himself had been a student. A protest against Bartolucci's dismissal was conveyed to Cardinal Angelo Sodano, Secretary of State, and also by the Jewish president of the National Academy of Santa Cecilia, Bruno Cagli. In the name of the Academy and of many in the music world, he expressed his concern over the possible loss of an "incommensurable religious and artistic patrimony tied into the tradition of Roman polyphony." Riccardo Muti, also one of the most world-renowned orchestra directors, voiced a protest. All to no avail. Maestro Domenico Bartolucci was sacrificed in the name of modern trends and of people's "participation" in Globovision broadcast Masses. - Alessandro Zangrando
I've read his books. He's studied church architecture in America. He isn't alone. He has a degree in architecture. Again. He isn't alone.
Is it now time to start pulling out our credentials, Max, and start whacking each other over the head?
"In 1997 bishops from the region of Tuscany published a pastoral letter – the first ever of its kind. Their letter was the first Church document ever to address the spiritual, pastoral and catechetic role of religious art. A diocesan office in Florence was opened and expressly dedicated to promoting teaching religion through art. "
"The diocesan office is headed by Fr. Timothy Verdon, an American scholar and priest living in the Tuscan capital since 1994. Fr. Verdon, already author of a magnificent book, "L’arte sacra in Italia" ("Sacred Art in Italy", published by Mondadori) is currently writing "A Christian Art History Manual" to be used in the formation of priests, as suggested in 1992 by the Pontifical Commission on Cultural Patrimony of the Church in an letter addressed to bishops worldwide. The project includes a test basis with various national editions, together with a CD-ROM and multi-media web site for distance learning."
"The project’s leading idea is that Christian Europe, as urged by John Paul II, can be revived precisely in rediscovering the powerful educational tool used to teach the faith through church architecture and religious art. Italy and the rest of Europe are incomparably rich in this sense. And Christian Europe will be revived through the formation of priests to meet such a challenge."
Not that such would matter to a bottom feeder, just thought I'd let you know.
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