A Hothouse Chapel in Hurricane Alley ("Ugly As Sin" At Ave Maria U.)

CruxNews.com ^ | 3/26/2004 | Michael Rose

[AAABEST]

It sounds to me like you're being taken for a ride. Like the rest of the neo-Catholic enterprise, it's built on direct-mail fundraising rather than on faith and grace.

My take on that is that if I can have a "neo" Catholic where there was previously no Catholic, I'll take it. What I don't want are neo-Catholics where there were devout ones previously.

Further if I can have a Christian (Catholic or not) where there once was a non-believer, I'll take it.

That's just my take on evangelism in general, not necessarily on what I think will happen with Ave Maria University. I'm hoping it will do more good than harm.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Head to confession, deacon.

[AAABEST]

Could the choir be heard at all in the open air? How many people were there?

I heard them just fine. It was quite the contrast next to the night before having the acoustics of the Phil and the organ with 30 foot pipes.

Everyone reciting the rosary on a procession through the tomatoes to the site of the future altar was a sight to see also.

There were a few hundred people there at least.

[old and tired]

This university is supposedly a conservative orthodox university. It will flop if they chose to ignore the smaller donors, most of whom will be repulsed by taking all their money and building a greenhouse. Donations will dry up, some people will lose interest in the new university, etc.

Over the past couple of years my wife and I have given Ave Maria donations totaling a few thousand dollars - we're not big donors, but we're reliable small donors.

As small donors, we don't feel entitled to make decisions about architecture. Now, I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I actually like the way that church looks. But I really believe that even if we didn't like it that it wouldn't matter to us.

Architecture doesn't matter. Boston College and Georgetown have, regrettably, received much more money from us (in tuition). Their architecture is beautiful - but we wouldn't give them a dime in donations.

[Siobhan]

The pictures we were shown were much better than this model came across. We will have to wait and see the finished product. I am the kind of person who wants to build Romanesque-Byzantine Cathedrals, so this is not my cup of tea. But I do think the end result will be far better than Michael Rose imagines.

Now that Fr. Fessio is celebrating Mass facing God (facing East) I am wondering how the Altar will look in the end. Everything will focus upon the Altar and Holy Mass, with walls and ceilings having more to do with sky and weather. It would be too easy to denounce it because it looks unlike what one would expect. I must restrain myself and remind myself that there is an enormous difference between this and the grim air hangar for the spirits of the lost that passes for a cathedral in Los Angeles.

[ninenot]

I'm trying to figure out how Domus Dei and Gate of Heaven can be reconciled with this aviary-design from the Milwaukee County Zoo.

Methinks Monaghan has had way too many anchovies on his pizza lately.

He's an odd duck. He seriously thought that he could (literally) franchise his grade-school model to other Catholic communities around the country.

Dunno how he intended to handle the 'franchising' of the nuns who taught there.

Seems to me it might fall under provisions of the White Slavery Act.

[ninenot]

FLW's style also is not too useful wherever it rains.

SCJohnson has spent a small fortune trying to fix the Golden Rondelle he designed on their campus in Racine, so that the water would stay OUT.

And not a few of his works have been torn down by homeowners who just couldn't take it any more.

[ninenot]

From what I've heard (over the air) and heard (from friends who are knowledgeable and who have lived there) the Vatican choir is so bad that they could well have been one of the reasons for the Protestant revolt.

And they REALLY don't like anyone, regardless of pedigree, pointing out how to sing well, unless they are Italian and have come from the VatChoir's ranks.

Sort of an inbreeding thing, and it shows.

[Desdemona]

And they REALLY don't like anyone, regardless of pedigree, pointing out how to sing well, unless they are Italian and have come from the VatChoir's ranks.

That explains a lot.

[ninenot]

"Where's the Organ"

EXACTLY the same question I had. World's Largest Church and World's Largest Crucifix--but lacking the only instrument recommended by every Vatican document since history began--the pipe organ.

Given the size of the building, I'd guess that an adequate instrument will set somebody back around $2.5-$3 million.

Maybe Bowie Kuhn, a buddy of Monaghan's?

[ninenot]

Father Fessio is NOT a traditional Catholic

Does this mean that he doesn't meet YOUR standards of Catholicism??

He seems to meet those of JPII--not being a schismatic, you know.

[Desdemona]

Given the size of the building, I'd guess that an adequate instrument will set somebody back around $2.5-$3 million.

Well, yeah. And just imagine the fatigue on the steel and glass from the vibrations. They'll be replacing pieces and parts constantly.

The more I think about it, the whole idea is just a mistake. I used to work in building with an atrium and the carpet under it had to be replaced due to the roof leaking - which it did every time it rained.

[ninenot]

Think about this: with a terrazzo floor and all-glass, that sucker will have a decay of around 12 seconds. With carpeted floor, it'll be down to 9 seconds. With padded pews, maybe 7 seconds.

No Bach. No Handel. Yeeeeessshhhhh!

[Desdemona]

Think about this: with a terrazzo floor and all-glass, that sucker will have a decay of around 12 seconds. With carpeted floor, it'll be down to 9 seconds. With padded pews, maybe 7 seconds.

I had thought about that. Kill the choir with mega largo tempi or all sound is going to be mush.

Who thinks up this stuff? I guess this all gets forgotten in the rush to be relevant.

[Romulus]

The mass was facing the altar, yet I've heard that the tridentine won't be allowed.

Is the new chapel laid out ad orientem?

[Romulus]

From what I've heard (over the air) and heard (from friends who are knowledgeable and who have lived there) the Vatican choir is so bad that they could well have been one of the reasons for the Protestant revolt.

The Capella Sistina has been gutted by the Pope's liturgist, Bishop Piero Marini, regarded in the Curia as one of the most arrogant and unpopular men in Rome. In the name of eliminating "incrustations" and of promoting inculturation he has largely banished traditional Catholic chant from Papal liturgies, in favor of showy media spectacles.

St. Mary Major’s is the only of the great Roman basilicas left that celebrates the liturgy according to the classical tradition of Gregorian chant and polyphony.

[St.Chuck]

I think I would like to see more details before I'd condemn the proposed chapel for Ave Maria. I'm kind of intrigued by the glass structure. If the inside can be seen from the outside, if students, as they pass by on their way to class can see the tabernacle, the altar, other students in prayer, that might be a good thing. The presence of God could be much more vivid and real for the people in the proximity of the chapel.

Conversely, those within could be distracted by that which is without.

I think the lines of the structure are appealing, widening as they soar toward the heavens, narrowing at the base. I think there are apt metaphors there. Also, the front facade resembles a bishop's mitre as it swoops down to encompass the churcified Christ. A very Catholic allusion and a reminder of Christ's prominence.....well that's my impression.

I am a chump change donor to the college and while I personally prefer the architecture of centuries past I am not automatically opposed to innovation as long as it reflects the traditional theology of Catholicism. I would want to see the sanctuary before I would condemn it.

[AAABEST]

I'm not sure. The procession walked to the spot where the altar would be and all that was there was a surveyer's stake.

The altar we used for the outdoor mass was temporary.

[Desdemona]

Given the size of the building, I'd guess that an adequate instrument will set somebody back around $2.5-$3 million.

I got to thinking about this - with the radiant heat from the sun and no decent insulation, the thing would be out of tune all the time.

[nina0113]

I've always admired Monaghan, but this is just nuts. A GREENHOUSE in FLORIDA? And ugly to boot - it looks about as reverent as a tiki bar, and a lot less comfortable.