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Harley, Harley, Harley...

Some real cheap shots.

The article makes it appear that the Blessed Virgin doesn't care whether people are Muslim or not. First it recounts "thousands of Muslims" coming to reverence her. Please note that this appearance brought them to a CHRISTIAN church.

Then the article associates this event (which was never confirmed by the RCC) with another event that was, the apparition of Fatima. But this creates a false context. The Apparition at Medjugorje wasn't endorsing Islam, and it is an absolute obscenity to suggest it was! The apparition appeared just before a horrific war, warning people that we ALL are created by God. Our Lady of Medjugorje pleaded for us to pray for the conversion of Muslims!

Scott Hahn's conversion story is interestingly portrayed. Scott Hahn will tell you he converted after researching to make attacks against the Catholic position on the basis of sola scriptura, only to discover that the Catholic position *was* the scriptural position. It was only THEN that he had this emotional conversion experience. And read what he said about the rosary: his lips enjoin Mary to pray with him, while his mind meditates on the mysteries of Christ, his savior! (The prayers "to Mary:" "...pray for us sinners...")

As for so many more churches be "dedicated to Mary than Christ:" ALL RCC churches are dedicated to Christ; Walk in our church and you will see him, front and center, on the cross. Most are named for a patron saint, asking that saint to join them in prayer. Most commonly, but still a small percentage of the time, this is the Blessed Virgin.

As for Revelations 12, the author misrepresents the Catholic position. The lady in Revelations is the Church itself. Catholics, including myself, point out Revelations 12 to show that the bible *does* treat Mary as special, not because Mary is the woman in Revelations, but because the bible uses Mary as the embodiment of the entire church! Mary is immaculate; we who make up the church are not. Likewise, the church also uses the gospel of John ("Behold your mother") as a means not only of asserting the fitness of regarding Mary as our mother, but also asserting the need we have to obey the Church.

And all this stuff about Mary being humble and submissive as if it is a refutation of the honors she is bestowed by the church: Mary is not humble and submissive in relation to man! She is humble and submissive to God! In the same passage where she refers to herself as the handmaiden of the LORD, she proclaims "From henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." Even Elizabeth, her older cousin, said, "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"

And we do not pray ten times more to Mary than to Jesus. When we pray to Mary, we are asking her to join us in our prayer to Jesus, which we do in the contemplation of the mysteries of the rosary. Hence, the prayers are so repetitive: so the recitation of the beseechments to Mary form no obstacle to our concentration apon Jesus!

Honestly, HarleyD... Have you nothing better to do than perpetually try to fan antagonisms and division? We Catholics don't exactly flood FR with attacks on Calvin.

My intent was not to get into another discussion of praying to Mary or not. I think we’ve hashed this out enough on other threads recently.

I was interested in what Fatima was since it was being talked about on another thread and I did not have a clue as to what you RCC’ers were talking about. I posted it for informational purposes only as I was heading out the door. I will say this article intrigued me because of all the various religions and denominations that the worship of Mary has spread to under Fatima.

Also, it is obvious from reading your other posts that, at least the conservatives, don’t buy into this Fatima. However, it seems like the liberals Protestants, Catholics, Hindus, Muslins, etc do. I’m curious as to what extent this has infiltrated the various churches. I still can’t figure out if the Pope supports this or not.

I know this article is from a Protestant’s perspective and you RCC’ers are very sensitive whenever a Protestant mentions anything about the Catholics. In some cases you have legitimate concerns. But even in some Protestant articles I’m sure you can glean at least some insight.

This was NOT intended as a cheap shot against Catholics. If you took it that way then I’m sorry.

However, dangus, if I see one more sola scriptura/sola faith article or conversion story on how I was a stupid Protestant and now I’m a blessed Catholic, there are no guarantees. :O)

JUST KIDDING!!!