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To: DoorGunner
Well, your right about 1/3 of the angels following Satan. Satan we know was proud. The Bible is unclear as to why the rest were booted out.

The reason I say there is no free will in heaven is that the angels could be booted out at any time-not just this one time occurrence. And clearly there is not anything in Heaven that could “tempt” an angel so what would be the point of “free will”?***

Of course, then we’ve come full circle. Since there is nothing in Heaven for Satan to have been tempted with, what caused him to sin? I certainly don’t believe it was “free will”. But even from a Calvinist perspective the text says “I created you blameless” makes it difficult to understand. I do believe that God knew that this would happen I has been it total control.

There is so little written about this. I looked it up last night in a number of commentaries and found they said there was little written about this.

Personally, I believe it relates somehow to mankind and God's salvation and while clues are there, we are not to know about it yet. But I have no scripture verses to back that up with. That's why I said this is one of those mysteries.

***Footnote: It’s interesting that great men of God where very humble men. And God commands us to be humble. This is the opposite of Satan who was “proud”. One has to think our Christian walk must be wrapped up in humility/pride issue – not doing "good" things. Doing good things is the result of humility.
24 posted on 03/25/2004 4:55:22 AM PST by HarleyD (READ Your Bible-STUDY to show yourself approved)
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To: HarleyD
 

Well, your right about 1/3 of the angels following Satan. Satan we know was proud. The Bible is unclear as to why the rest were booted out.

It wasn't merely that he was "proud." He entertained delusions that he was equal to God.

They were "booted out," because they "waged war." (rebelled):


Revelation 12:

7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging
war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,

8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place
found for them in heaven.

 

 

The reason I say there is no free will in heaven is that the angels could be booted out at any time-not just this one time occurrence.

Although the Bible does not mention any other such incident, I know of no passage which says this is impossible. 

And clearly there is not anything in Heaven that could "tempt" an angel so what would be the point of "free will"?***

Clearly, there IS such a thing. For one, there are more exalted places, or positions, which satan wanted, and presumably his angels wanted. Presumably, there still exist exalted places, or positions, which the "good" angels might still covet?

 

Of course, then we've come full circle. Since there is nothing in Heaven for Satan to have been tempted with, what caused him to sin?

As we see, above, there was(is) "something" in heaven, for which satan lusted.

I certainly don't believe it was "free will".

Please permit me to say that I think that you may not see what is clearly stated in scripture, because you have already decided this issue. [Granted, I could be making the same error.]

But even from a Calvinist perspective the text says "I created you blameless" makes it difficult to understand.

Yes.

Personally, I believe it relates somehow to mankind and God's salvation...

Agreed.

 ***Footnote: It's interesting that great men of God where very humble men. And God commands us to be humble. This is the opposite of Satan who was "proud". One has to think our Christian walk must be wrapped up in humility/pride issue...

Agreed. I believe that this is a very important aspect of The Way, which is largely ignored in modern Christianity.

- not doing "good" things. Doing good things is the result of humility.

Although I, personally, would ascribe good deeds to (agape) love, humility and agape go hand in hand.

DG

 

 

 

25 posted on 03/25/2004 5:20:03 PM PST by DoorGunner ("A KERRY Ain't Nothin' But a Sandwich")
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