Church growth continues for Catholic and Pentecostals; six mainline denominations decline

Church Central ^ | March 19, 2004

[patent]

It might be good to watch where you spew all your pent up frustrations and anger.

Well, if that post was “all [my] pent up frustrations and anger” then apparently I’m a pretty happy guy. Either that, or my frustrations are pretty boring. If I ever really vent on you I'd like to think I'll spew vitriol a little better than the above.

It might be even better to not try to make enemies where you have none.

I’m not trying to make an enemy of you, I couldn’t care less about you. I AM trying to deal with your attacks, mistakes, and misplaced criticisms. There are plenty of things to dislike about the human execution of our Church’s function without inventing more.

When I see something I don't believe to be true I will respond, regardless of whether you "like" me or not.

patent  +AMDG

[patent]

Thanks, you too.

patent

[patent]

"Which no doubt bugs you endlessly."

False. You are apparently projecting your own prejudices.

Well, except that I didn’t bring Mexicans up. I’ll take your word that you don’t have a problem there.

patent  +AMDG

[cpprfld]

Interesting. I'd say that these all tend to be fairly liberal communities (at least in the leadership), save one. I wonder why LCMS is shrinking.

I think the reason you see the LCMS shrinking, is that they rely to much on their schools for evangelism. Secondly, I belong to LCMS church and I am happy with the doctrine, but I am usually the youngest person at a church service, with the exception of the kids who are there with their parents. So, the point that I am making is that the LCMS is doing a poor job outreaching to younger members.

[cpprfld]

There is a big fight brewing between two factions in the LCMS. One focuses on the sole leadership of ordained pastors, the other on more of a lay ministry focus. I doubt the two sides will remain together very long, as the Yankee Stadium issue with Pastor Beneke illustrates.

Do you have more information regarding these two faction? I guess I don't understand what the fundamental issues are.

[redgolum]

Sure. Basically there is an Uber conservative side, which wants to keep the old style liturgy, focus on pastoral leadership, and break off any type of ecumenical talks with any non Lutheran group.

The other side has more of a contemporary worship style, focuses on lay leadership in some areas, and is involved in the "Church Growth" movement type of stuff.

The Yankee Stadium issue has to do with a Pastor Beneke from New York that took part in the 911 memorial service in Yankee Stadium. The issue is that he was on stage while non Christians and non Lutherans were praying. It is against the LCMS bylaws to take part in a inter religious service. Beneke asked for permission from his synod, and prayed a beautiful prayer asking for Jesus's help and support. That prayer was NOT appreciated by some of the other participants. As a result, Beneke was put on leave for a bit, and a big battle between the Lutheran Rad Trads and the other side has broken out.

I fully expect the LCMS summer meeting will intensify this, and might result in some congregations leaving the LCMS.

To get the Uber Conservative side of the debate look at www.Lutherquest.org

[redgolum]

Now I understand your previous question! The situation is reversed in my neck of the woods. The average age in my local LCMS congregation in Lincoln NE is about 35. We have a congregation of 800 with regular attendance of 5-600. One of the assistant pastors made a big effort to reach out to the younger crowd, and since the congregation is just over 10 years old it has worked pretty well. This hasn't gone over to well with some of the older churches, who think that growth in a congregation means that you have to be watering down the Gospel.

I understand about being the youngest guy at the service. Most of the older LCMS congregations don't really reach out to the non married singles. In my previous job, I was the one of the few non married 18-30 year olds.

[redgolum]

What do you define as the "mega church"? Many in my local district are doing the Church Growth thing with some success. At one time, King of Kings in Omaha was the fastest growing church in America.

Overall, I think you are right. The rural base is declining, and the LCMS with it.

[cpprfld]

Our congregation has about 1000 people, with four to five hundred people attending services a week. The concern that I have about my church is that the location of the church is in one of the faster growing areas of the state, but we haven't experienced much growth.

[Cronos]

The major U.S. churches that recorded growth between 2001 and 2002 included the Catholic Church (No. 1),

Sinkspur:
How can this be? I'm told, on a daily basis right on this forum, that the Catholic Church is shrinking like a slug on a salt lick.
Perhaps somebody doesn't know what he's talking about?

I think you're correct. Isn't it strange that everyone says the Christian church has shrinking membership both here and in Europe when in reality in Southern, Catholic Europe church attendence is still high and in northern Europe Lutheran, Calvinist places are empty? Could it be that God's church is still surviving, nay, thriving after 2000 years? Aren't God's deeds grand?

[Cronos]

The growth of the Catholic church comes completely from immigration, both legal and illegal, also the Catholic church does not purge its membership files, even if someone has not sat in a pew in years.

Not really. There are many folks, including quite a few here on FR who have found Christ in Christ's church. The growth in The Church is due to more people finding God's word

[Cronos]

What we are gaining in Protestant converts we are losing in cradle Catholics. Catholics should be concerned.

Well actually things aren't that dire, or else we wouldn't still be growing. But you are correct -- the Church needs to be more charismatic

[Cronos]

Illegal immigrants register in parishes?
Yeah. Uh-huh. Sure.
Sorry, guys. That's not even close to reflecting reality.

Some folks aren't ready to admit that God's word is spreading and that God's church is expanding.

[Cronos]

Non-denominational evangelical Christian Churches are growing the fastest.

That's true. If you have a community that is formed of 20 members, having 100% growth and getting to 40 is not a big deal. Having 66 million Church goers and saving more, in percentage terms takes time, but in real souls saved, the numbers are vast.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

No, the Church needs to be more traditional. The charismatic movement is not Catholic.

[ultima ratio]

Is this why Boston is closing 65 churches?

[Cronos]

Nope, that's not the reason why, that's because its in Mass. Also it is 65 out of 357 parishes. Besides, Mass is d***ed anyway.

[Cronos]

I mean that the church should be more charismatic, not that it should expand the Charismatic movement.