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To: agrace
How about a question to answer a question? Could you generalize for me the reason(s) that the Church chose to retain the Septuagint OT?

The Septuagint is the version that is consistently referred to by Jesus and the Apostles in the New Testament. The table about one-fourth way down the page lists 30 of the more significant references.

The Church Fathers quote from the deuterocanonical books from the earliest times.

The key point is that an extra-Biblical authority is necessary to establish the canon of Scripture. Catholics cite the authority of Christ's Church in writing, preserving and determining the canon of Scripture. What authority can Luther cite for his canon?

It is interesting to me, the fact that the Jews themselves did not ultimately see fit to include those extra books in their Tanakh, yet the RCC did.

During Jesus time, the Jews did not officially have a list of inspired books or canon. The word "canon" comes from Greek "kanon" meaning a measuring rod. The Hebrew speaking Jews in Palestine are generally known to use 24 books which they divided in three divisions: the Law (5 books of Moses or Pentateuch); the Prophets (4 former and 4 latter prophets) and the Writings (11 books). The Sadducees most likely did not accept Daniel as Dan 12:2 supports resurrection which they denied (Mark 12:18). Others like Samaritans accept only (their version of) Pentateuch as Scripture to this day. Jewish historian, Josephus, wrote (c. 90 CE) that Jews recognized 22 books, divided in three divisions: 5 books of Moses, 13 books of the Prophets and the remaining 4 books. Note the difference in the number of books in second and third divisions and since he did not name them one by one, one can only speculate whether they are condensed form of 24 Hebrew books or not. The Essenes at Qumran community, who lived at the same time with our Lord might not accept Esther. On the other hand Greek speaking Jews used a longer Scripture which is known as Septuagint...

It is commonly believed that after the destruction of the Jerusalem temple in 70 CE, the Jews under the leadership of Yohanan ben Zakkai decided at Jamnia (or Javneh) to adopt the Hebrew Scripture as their canon. Whether the Jamnia council really happened is still under debate and, even if it did, the Jewish Canon was not settled in the first century. The encyclopedia of Judaism, page 117 says that the limit of the third part (Writings) was not finalized until mid of second century. In addition, the Hebrew canon was also not accepted by Ethiopian Jews who accept the Septuagint (minus Ecclesiasticus) to this day (Encyclopaedia of Religion, Vol. 2, page 174). In any case, Christians have no reason to accept the Jewish canon declared after our Lord's ascension.

Also, an example of a specific verse that has always bothered me - If it is well written and to the point, that is what I wanted; if it is poorly done and mediocre, that is the best I could do. And so ends 2 Maccabees. Well, there is one more verse after that, but my point is that the author hardly seems divinely inspired to me. Of course these were all men writing the scriptures, but God certainly would not have done anything poorly or mediocre and I find it surprising that such description found its way into inspired text.

It could be either God writing through weak men, as you stated, or it could simply be an attitude of humility.

117 posted on 03/14/2004 1:17:03 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
The Septuagint is the version that is consistently referred to by Jesus and the Apostles in the New Testament.

Makes sense, since the common language of the day was Greek. But how many of those quotes are from the Apocrypha?

Note the difference in the number of books in second and third divisions and since he did not name them one by one, one can only speculate whether they are condensed form of 24 Hebrew books or not.

The Hebrews most certainly did combine books. Their total was/is 24 but the content is the same. The fact is, as stated in a previous post, the Jews always considered what eventually became their canon to be inspired of God. The other books were held in high regard but were not considered inspired.

125 posted on 03/14/2004 1:46:26 PM PST by agrace
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To: Aquinasfan; agrace
The Septuagint is the version that is consistently referred to by Jesus and the Apostles in the New Testament. The table about one-fourth way down the page lists 30 of the more significant references.

Which Septuagint? There is no such thing as a complete Septuagint in existance. The earliest version available is dated after 300 A.D.

Which came first, the Gospels or the Septuagint? Remember, "tradition" doesn't count. What is the earliest hard copy of the Septuagint?

138 posted on 03/14/2004 3:30:42 PM PST by OLD REGGIE ((I am a cult of one! UNITARJEWMIAN) Maybe a Biblical Unitarian?)
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