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To: SoothingDave
"The objection to Calvinism is that God selects people for hell without ever giving them a real, honest, good faith opportunity to choose otherwise."

The problem with the "free will" approach is that it relies upon individuals hearing the "message" and making informed decisions. What happens to those who, for whatever the reason, are not afforded the opportunity to make that decision? Or about the hardening of Israel's heart until the fullness of the Gentiles mentioned in Romans 11 is complete?

Is it any more just of an all powerful God not using this power to have every single person hear the message and make an informed decision?

I've noticed most people think of God's sovereignty as an attribute like love or mercy. It is not. It is God's position. God is our Father and is in control just like my father was in control when I was growing up. My father might have been loving, just, and so forth but these are attributes or characteristics.

While I tend to focus on God's sovereigty (which is God's position), God is also love, mercy, grace, just, etc (attributes). I am confident in the fact that those God want saved will be saved despite our failures because God is in control; fairly, justly, and equably according to His divine nature. The rational for why God does what He does is unknown to us.

3,903 posted on 04/13/2004 8:03:34 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: HarleyD
"The objection to Calvinism is that God selects people for hell without ever giving them a real, honest, good faith opportunity to choose otherwise."

The problem with the "free will" approach is that it relies upon individuals hearing the "message" and making informed decisions. What happens to those who, for whatever the reason, are not afforded the opportunity to make that decision?

What about it? Do you think no rule can have exceptions for circumstances? God doesn't expect a baby to profess or act like he expects an adult to. This doesn't mean an adult can act like a baby. People who are capable of exercising their wills are responsible for the choices they make. Children and those mentally handicapped are not.

This isn't rocket science.

sD

3,905 posted on 04/13/2004 8:08:58 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: HarleyD
I've noticed most people think of God's sovereignty as an attribute like love or mercy. It is not. It is God's position.

Thanks for the frank admission.

SD

3,906 posted on 04/13/2004 8:10:18 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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