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To: the808bass; malakhi; Alex Murphy
"You can attempt to negate it or play word games with it, but in the end, you have a sovereign God who causes EVERYTHING, including the rejection of Himself.”

God doesn't cause the rejection of Himself. Mankind is already destined for Hell. God elects His chosen and it is God who RESCUES His chosen from Hell. A vast difference in perspective.

The correct question you should really pose is; “Why doesn’t God save everyone from Hell?” But this would be no different then me asking you, "Why doesn't God allow everyone to 'hear the Word'"? From your perspective you are saying that God created an imperfect system of salvation.

All any of us can say is that is God’s sovereignty.

3,856 posted on 04/13/2004 5:10:53 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: HarleyD
God doesn't cause the rejection of Himself. Mankind is already destined for Hell. God elects His chosen and it is God who RESCUES His chosen from Hell. A vast difference in perspective.

Well, of course Calvinists believe that God causes the rejection of Himself.

In fact, per your belief, it is part of His pre-determined plan.

3,861 posted on 04/13/2004 5:51:09 AM PDT by Quester (I just have this thing about accuracy.)
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To: HarleyD; the808bass; malakhi
God doesn't cause the rejection of Himself. Mankind is already destined for Hell. God elects His chosen and it is God who RESCUES His chosen from Hell. A vast difference in perspective.

Always amazes me how many people can quote John 3:16, and some of them might even know John 3:17, but just how few have ever read John 3:18-19....

He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the judgement, that the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil.

3,865 posted on 04/13/2004 6:01:01 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: HarleyD
Mankind is already destined for Hell.

We'll part company on this point; Judaism rejects the doctrine of original sin. But we also disagree with the Romantic view, exemplified by Rousseau, that man is basically good. The Jewish view is that we are in essence born morally neutral: we are capable of both good and evil, and are subject to both good and evil impulses. Which we choose is a free act of moral will. And we therefore bear moral responsibility for the choices we make.

3,891 posted on 04/13/2004 7:01:51 AM PDT by malakhi (L'shana haba'ah b'Yerushalayim!)
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To: HarleyD
God doesn't cause the rejection of Himself. Mankind is already destined for Hell. God elects His chosen and it is God who RESCUES His chosen from Hell. A vast difference in perspective.

Who did cause the rejection of God, in your system? Was humanity predestined for Hell from the outset? And if so, on what basis?

4,149 posted on 04/13/2004 8:10:19 PM PDT by the808bass
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