Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: IMRight
There is no question that God's Grace will precede the choice to follow Him. As a creature (and that's all we are apart from Him) man does not have the ability to say "yes" to God. That doesn't force the situation though. Your usage of "will" is "unusual". Those who are not regenerated will not chose Him, those who are will.

Those that are unregenerate can not choose Him. All men do as they will to do (that is free will) .

Let me ask you a question, can you honestly say that having God give you a will that can and will choose Him is an evil thing? An undesirable thing?

When I hear people say things like " God does not FORCE you" I wonder if we live in the same reality . Is it an undesirable fate to be in the presence of the Eternal God? Is it a fate worse than death to run to Him ? Why would He have to FORCE us to come?

Did Lazarus yell out from the tomb, "I do not choose to live thank you anyway" .

We read in Romans that every man will stand before God without an excuse .That is a very important principle . God reveals himself to all men , He takes nothing away from from men,He refuses no one that comes to Him. All men are held responsible to respond to the call , and will be judged so. Paul tells us that no man seeks God or even understands God. When God regenerates (quickens) us , our ears and eyes are opened and we can for the first time see God without the barrier of Adams sin separating us from Him. We then will seek and understand.

As Calvinists , we do not see God as taking anything away from the reprobates, but as adding to the elect the grace to see and hear without the static of sin. He does not remove from us our free will, He makes it more free in Him.

2,933 posted on 04/09/2004 2:00:32 PM PDT by RnMomof7 (Broomstick Jockey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2911 | View Replies ]


To: RnMomof7
Let me ask you a question, can you honestly say that having God give you a will that can and will choose Him is an evil thing? An undesirable thing?

Undesireable? No of course not. But there are lots of things that are desirable that also do not exist.

Can you say God giving you a hug is an evil thing? Does that mean people get hugs from Him every day?

Your points boil down to "If everyone had the choice - how could any of them possibly say no???" Which is no different that asking how Adam and Eve could have screwed up when they had everything so perfect. Free will combined with " the sin that is within me that is not my sin" makes it very possible. Not "desirable", but far too common. We are bent.

2,936 posted on 04/09/2004 2:10:59 PM PDT by IMRight
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2933 | View Replies ]

To: RnMomof7
"As Calvinists , we do not see God as taking anything away from the reprobates, but as adding to the elect the grace to see and hear without the static of sin. He does not remove from us our free will, He makes it more free in Him."

And we are now back to the question. If He gives to the elect the eyes or the Grace to see their sin and be saved and to unelect He does not give such Grace, and it is this Grace that determines man's fate, then how can this be considered just.

We read in Romans that every man will stand before God without an excuse.

Can't this man then say, God you did not give me the Grace that was given to the elect, so of course I could not choose your Son, I could only reject Him, because I was wired to reject from the foundation of the world. This does not seem just to me.

JM
2,937 posted on 04/09/2004 2:13:07 PM PDT by JohnnyM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2933 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson