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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain; ksen; Wrigley; SoothingDave; irishtenor; snerkel; drstevej; ...
"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." -- Matthew 20:28

"If Christ on His cross intended to save every man, then He intended to save those who were lost before He died. If the doctrine be true, that He died for all men, then He died for some who were in Hell before He came into this world, for doubtless there were even then myriads there who had been cast away because of their sins. . . That seems to me a conception a thousand times more repulsive than any of those consequences which are said to be associated with the Calvinistic and Christian doctrine of special and particular redemption. To think that my Savior died for men who were or are in Hell, seems a supposition too horrible for me to entertain." (Charles Spurgeon, Autobiography: 1, The Early Years, p. 172)

"We are often told that we limit the atonement of Christ, because we say that Christ has not made satisfaction for all men, or all men would be saved. Now, our reply to this is that, on the other hand, our opponents limit it, we do not. The Arminians say, Christ died for all men. Ask them what they mean by it. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men? They say, 'No, certainly not.' We ask them the next question--Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular? They say, 'No.' They are obliged to admit this if they are consistent. They say, 'No; Christ has died so that any man may be saved if'-and then follow certain conditions of salvation. We say then, we will just go back to the old statement-Christ did not die so as beyond a doubt to secure the salvation of anybody, did He? You must say 'No;' you are obliged to say so, for you believe that even after a man has been pardoned, he may yet fall from grace and perish. Now, who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why you... We say Christ so died that He infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved, and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement; you may keep it. We will never renounce ours for the sake of it."

(Charles Spurgeon, Sermon 181, New Park Street Pulpit, IV, p. 135)

2,777 posted on 04/08/2004 7:08:20 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
So were to take the word of another calvinist that calvinsim is true? LOL

BigMack
2,786 posted on 04/08/2004 8:17:01 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain (Proud member of the Lunatic Fringe, we love Spam, Uzi's and Jesus)
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