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To: the808bass
1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
1 Peter 3:1   Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2  While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
And a negative example: 1 Corinthians 10:31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God--
followed by an interesting positive....
33 even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved. 11:1 Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
Matt. 9:10ff While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" 12 On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Seeing that one does not want to waste his time reading "irrelevant " scripture,"
Are you asserting that all Scripture is relevant to every situation? I know you're not. You needn't respond to this point.

Where does any of that scripture say seeing your good works saves anyone? You are reading into the text something that is not there .

These commands like all of the admonitions had nothing to do with "saving anyone ".They did have to do with God being glorified in HIS people .

Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

Rom 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

Rom 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

As was said to David

2Sa 12:14   Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also [that is] born unto thee shall surely die.
     1Ti 6:1   Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and [his] doctrine be not blasphemed.

Our sin and our walk either give God glory or blaspheme His name in the mouth of the heathens

For a man to think one is saved by HIS walk is contrary to the word of God , that says clearly that it is the word of God , that brings one to faith , not our feeble works that bring a man to faith and salvation.

Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

1Cr 1:21   For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1Pe 1:23   Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Rom 1:16   For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.     

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2Cr 4:3   But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

God is jealous for His name , salvation is all about God, not one with about the work or behavior of men. That is what the gospel teaches .

2,370 posted on 04/07/2004 11:22:56 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Broomstick Jockey)
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To: RnMomof7
Where does any of that scripture say seeing your good works saves anyone?

You would be much better off admitting you were wrong. This denial of obvious Scriptural references does great damage to your reputation as a Biblicist.

They did have to do with God being glorified in HIS people .

Close, but wrong. I would wager you wrestled with how to word this for a while to minimize the damage of heathens glorifying God. The fact is that in one of the passages that it is evildoers who end up glorifying God, which is not at all "God being glorified in HIS people."

Secondly, it obviously says that a wife can be a witness simply by how she lives her life and that the unbelieving husband can "without the word be won by conversation." Of course, conversation in the KJV means lifestyle. You know this very well, but will dodge it here as it does not fit your paradigm.

Then the negative example. There is clearly a statement that one can cause a person to stumble. See the OT usage of the word stumbling for more illumination on what this means. And then Paul follows this by saying that he tries to please everyone in every way so that everyone might be saved. Sounds positively seeker-sensitive, doesn't it? But again, doesn't fit the paradigm so out it goes.

And the last passage was in reference to the "light fellowshiping with darkness." But you knew that as well.

For a man to think one is saved by HIS walk is contrary to the word of God , that says clearly that it is the word of God , that brings one to faith , not our feeble works that bring a man to faith and salvation.

I agree that one is not saved by his/her walk. But the word of God is exemplified in action. If we give a glass of water in His name, if we feed the poor, if we visit the sick, etc. But you've read James and you know this as well.

God is jealous for His name

Sometimes your over-preaching comments drift into obscurity and it does so here. This is nice preaching as us Pentecostals say but I'm not sure how it relates to what we're discussing. Is someone who strives to live a Godly example and be kind to others not showing the proper respect due God's name? If not, then what on earth did you mean? I'm not quite sure you yourself know. But you believe whatever it is you mean, which is half the battle.

Finally, to clear up any misconception, I believe that preaching the Gospel is part of evangelism. In fact it will comprise the bulk of the "heavy lifting" of evangelism. Without the message of the Gospel, we are little more than penny-ante moralists. It is, however, not the only way that the Gospel, the good news of the Kingdom, is revealed, taught or preached. Clearly, our lives are a witness to others. To deny that is to deny sense and sanity. But that's never stopped anyone on this board.

2,526 posted on 04/07/2004 4:29:49 PM PDT by the808bass
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