| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 04/19/2004 7:52:52 PM PDT by Admin Moderator, reason:
This thread has 183 abuse reports. It’s now locked. Maybe you can all get along better on the next thread. |
Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
Read it again Dave. I said exactly what I meant. Apparently it's a thought that's new to you.
A saved person now has the ability to not sin. Will they always exercise that ability? No, just read about Paul's struggles in Romans and John's admonitions about saying we are without sin in First John.
Seriously, I think it's an excellent question. Do we deserve to go to Heaven? Any of us?
Oh, boo hoo. Your silence speaks volumes.
SD
You are evading the question. There is no difference between my stance and the stance of the Free-Will advocate who will also grant that God has Perfect Omniscience.
OK, so this new nature is one where we are free to do good or to sin. Is that a fair restatement?
In the old nature, there was nothing possible except to sin. Is that also right? You said "a saved person now has the ability to not sin." From this I conclude that before being saved they did not have this ability. Therefore it was all sin.
OK. So what were we talking about? Oh, right. Does having the ability to sin or not sin, the freedom to choose, make one greater than God, who is not in his nature able to sin?
SD
The difference is in the offer of grace and the individual's culpability for how he deals with it. It is a completely different conception of God between one who offers everyone all the grace sufficient for salvation and one who only offers such grace to those whom He chooses.
In the first case, damnation is the individual's fault for failing to respond to God. In the second, damnation is a natural result of how the person was created.
SD
Two in the chair is crowded
Three in the chair and somebody gets squashed lol
Cowboy(jj)
Street bike (huh?) (Cody)
Cindydawg (granny)
Seriously, I think it's an excellent question. Do we deserve to go to Heaven? Any of us?
Of course not ... heaven is perfect.
Apart from the work of God, ... any one of us going there would only muck it up.
For the Bible tells me so
Little ones to Him below
They are weak but he is strong
Yes Jesus loves me
Yes Jesus loves me
Yes Jesus loves me
For the bible tells me so
Cowboy
It's like the little girl who isn't getting enough attention pouting in her room so she comes down to pout and ignore you in your face. The child who calls up to you to say "I'm not talking to you! So there!"
Not get much quality time as a child Doc?
I'll agree with that.
In the old nature, there was nothing possible except to sin. Is that also right? You said "a saved person now has the ability to not sin." From this I conclude that before being saved they did not have this ability. Therefore it was all sin.
Yes.
OK. So what were we talking about? Oh, right. Does having the ability to sin or not sin, the freedom to choose, make one greater than God, who is not in his nature able to sin?
No, you twisted it a bit. I did not say that having the ability to sin or not sin made one greater than God, but the ability to act different than our nature would make us greater than God.
An unsaved person acts according to his nature, which is to sin.
A saved person acts according to his nature, which is to sin or not sin.
God acts according to His Nature, which is to be Just, Holy, etc.
Everyone is still acting according to their nature.
The difference is in the offer of grace and the individual's culpability for how he deals with it. It is a completely different conception of God between one who offers everyone all the grace sufficient for salvation and one who only offers such grace to those whom He chooses.
In the first case, damnation is the individual's fault for failing to respond to God. In the second, damnation is a natural result of how the person was created.
Doesn't the real question have to do with how much control God chooses to exert over His creation(s) ?
Does He call the shots on every single decision ... or is it enough that His will is, ultimately, accomplished ?
Now, of course, His omniscience mandates that He knows all, ... but is there no room for free will within His plan ?
Is there nothing that He, simply, sets in motion ... and allows to play out ?
A related question is this ... Did God create us to choose ?
Yet another question ... In what way are we the image of God ?
All the children of the net
Baptists, Catholics, Calvinists, Jews and all
Jesus loves the little children of the net.
Cowboy and Cindydawg
Cowboy ?
OK, I looked back and see I did misunderstand what you were getting at. Yes, we all act according to our natures.
I guess we are stuck on the T then.
An unsaved person acts according to his nature, which is to sin.
I simply don't agree that this is the nature. Unless you radically redefine what "sin" means, this simply isn't true. No one is comopletely sin free and no one chooses the good all of the time.
But there are actions done by the unsaved that are not sinful.
This, then, is where we are stuck. The unsaved person has just as much freedom, actual freedom, to choose good ro bad as the saved person does. But one has his will bent toward evil, the other toward goodness.
It is the freedom that is the constant.
SD
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.