Michael Rose, author of "Goodbye, Good Men" comments on Hubbard!!

CruxNews.com via Roman Catholic Faithful (www.rcf.org) ^

[sinkspur]

I said if accusations are brought against someone stealing souls, be they true or not, let them serve the purpose of eliminating a wicked bishop who steers others to hell.

The end justifies the means, IOW.

No thanks. Each human being is responsible for his own soul, john. If someone believes what Hubbard teaches, and it is wrong, their invincible ignorance will save them.

[Desdemona]

Oh, Crustaceous one...this one, while needing much prayer and recognition of actual heterodoxy, is really a fight of another realm. We are mere pawns. That's all I was getting at.

[Barnacle]

Oh, Crustaceous one...

LOL

[johnb2004]

You are now God? You can't say who will be saved. Catholics are under a serious obligation to learn and give assent to Church teachings. If a bishop teaches error, an individual may not be fully culpable, but one would be hard pressed to say they are invincibly ignorant.

In fact, it is interesting that many on the left always cry that they are mature and educated unlike those that came before them. So, they should be able to pick and choose truth. Do you not think that each of us has so many avenues to learn the truth today that much more will be expected of us?

Lastly, to attempt to make the case that two men bringing serious charges are more important than a bishop teaching against Christ is more than foolish.

[sinkspur]

John, you think the end justifies the means, and the means could be murder, in your view, if it means "saving somebody's soul" (whatever that means in your mind.)

There's no point in discussing this any further. Slime tactics, smears, lies, even physical violence is OK to you, for a higher good.

We're not even in the same ballpark in terms of what is moral.

[johnb2004]

Stop putting words in my mouth. You already stated that teaching error is not a problem for the soul. I never said the ends justify the means. My intention is to show that spreading error can lead to eternal death and that trumps the allegations at hand. I never stated false allegations should be brought.

You provoke, start a fire and fan the flames. I know what you are.

[sinkspur]

You already stated that teaching error is not a problem for the soul.

No I didn't. I said that believing something is the truth, when one who is supposed to teach the truth teaches it, partially absolves the soul if the soul believes it.

I never said the ends justify the means.

Yes you did.

And, here. You say it again right here:

My intention is to show that spreading error can lead to eternal death and that trumps the allegations at hand. I never stated false allegations should be brought.

Yes you did. Anything that works to get Hubbard out is OK with you.

You can't even keep your own thoughts straight.

[sinkspur]

If it's OK to falsely accuse Hubbard of sexual abuse, to "save souls from eternal death," why not just kill him? It would be easier, and quicker, and more "souls would be saved."

[johnb2004]

I never said the ends justify the means. Perhaps my mind is too subtle for you? The current climate in Albany may push out Hubbard, though I doubt it.

You said if error is taught an individual would be completely without fault and would be saved. Your thoughts need to be ordered, friend, not mine.

[sinkspur]

You said if error is taught an individual would be completely without fault and would be saved.

If the individual has reason to believe that the person teaching the error is, in fact, teaching the truth, I doubt God will consign that person to hell for believing erroneously.

At least, the God that I pray to wouldn't. Maybe your God is just waiting for any reason to cast souls into Hades.

You have weasled out of your original position, and that is a good thing. The end NEVER justifies the means.

[johnb2004]

You mock. Perhaps you think the soul is a joke too? In the past I have accused you of being too secular. My charge is on target.

[sinkspur]

You mock. Perhaps you think the soul is a joke too? In the past I have accused you of being too secular. My charge is on target.

John, it is always your MO to lash out with insults when you've run out of arguments.

Why not just admit you were wrong, or say nothing?

[johnb2004]

So,let me understand your AmChurch position. Error has rights? Personal responsibility can be evaded as easily as possible. Standing for the truth is being a weasel.

[johnb2004]

I do admit when I am wrong. I will not be bullied into backing down when I am correct by those to twist words and are arrogant.

[Salvation]

**That is because Mary Jo White is 'on the case' ;-D**

LOL!

[Salvation]

good questions!

[Siobhan]

Your badgering is shameless and despicable.

[ninenot]

Ahhh..as a gun-owner and father of a number of girls, I think I can respond to your query with some authority.

First off, we are not talking about a serial murderer. We are talking about the POSSIBILITY that a prelate has engaged in homosexual relations.

That having been said, let's go back to serial child-killers.

We assume that 911 is not an option and I come across a scene where the perpetrator is engaged in violence against a young girl.

I am allowed to defend the life of anyone, with as much force as is required, to defend that life, BUT NO MORE force than NECESSARY. That is, lethal force may be, ah, overkill, if 'shoot-to-disable' works.

Yes, we DO care about 'how it's stopped.' That's what moral laws are all about.

[sinkspur]

Your badgering is shameless and despicable.

If you have specific objections to specific arguments I was making to johnb2004, please make them.

John's a big boy, and hasn't needed a den mother before now to stick up for him.

[johnb2004]

"We are talking about the POSSIBILITY that a prelate has engaged in homosexual relations."

That is not what we are talking about. We are talking about a bishop that teaches against the truth and may very well being leading others into sin. What is more important- charges of homosexuality or leading another into sin? That is my point.