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To: BlackElk
But I still don't get it. If these priests wanted to say the new mass, why did they want to stay with the FSSP? Why didn't they go to a new order (or can't they do that? Geez, I'm pretty ignorant about this)?

I guess my biggest question is, what good has Vatican II done? Short of the fall of Communism, I don't see very much that is great since it started. Wouldn't one think that the Vatican would want to gather all of us together and start fresh? Let the Latin mass be an option everywhere and let the chips fall where they may?

Maybe I'm just being a Polyanna.
Like I said, being raised with Vatican II in place, and finding out about SSPX a week ago, I am puzzled. I just see an awful lot of bad in our church with the Pope more concerned about traveling than either protecting our children or bringing us together. I just bought my older daughter's First Communion dress and was thinking of leaving the church after the younger one made hers. I am so upset about the silence from Rome.
And my Uncle is the former Bishop of Steubenville. I have a very Catholic family.
142 posted on 03/01/2004 2:57:31 PM PST by netmilsmom (God Bless the FReepers who convinced Dad to let me Homeschool!)
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To: netmilsmom
Welcome to the forum.
Like many on the forum, I try to find the good in all arguments.
What bothers me most about this Fr Bisig FSSP affair is that he very quickly dismissed without being given a chance to implement what could easily be called a clarification of FSSP rules; meanwhile our homo clerics continue to get carte blanche. It sounds like a mean-spirited power play. Obviously we don't know all the facts here, but that one part, that he was dumped quickly with little pretext is quite troubling IMHO.
I would encourage you to stay Catholic whether it's NO or trad. The alternatives are much less compelling and have no real authority.
149 posted on 03/01/2004 5:42:18 PM PST by Piers-the-Ploughman
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To: netmilsmom
SSPX has four chapels in Michigan and two have schools for children. I think the Armada group is the one who protested the Buddhists in the Church sanctuary last month. It might be worth checking out.

The nice thing about SSPX is they can tell it like it is without fear of retaliation by diocesan bishops.

http://www.sspx.org/chapels.htm

http://www.sspx.org/schools.html

There are four dioceses which have Traditional Mass under the Indult but unfortunately these are not traditional parishes with schools like the SSPX. The N.O. Masses might be more conservative in those churches.

http://www.ecclesiadei.org/region05.htm
153 posted on 03/01/2004 6:00:30 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: netmilsmom
Catholics are those in communion with the Holy See not in rebellion against it as are SSPX adherents and their excommunicated bishops.

That there are sinners and gross sinners at that among our bishops and clergy is no surprise. Christ chose twelve. Thomas denied the Resurrection unless he could place his hands in the wounds. Peter denied Christ three times on that final night. Judas, well, Judas needs no introduction. All bishops are successors of the apostles. Some are successors of Judas.

We are not appointed to direct Rome. I probably do no care for what has been done "in the spirit of Vatican II" any more than do you or many of the schismatics. I almost apostasized twenty-five years ago. I did not. I decided to trust the promises of Jesus Christ and I am not changing in hat respect to go find a schismatic religious ghetto to abandon the true Church to her internal enemies and satisfy myself with what the schismatics assume is their justified self-congratulation while nursing my wounded pride and tastes.

God gave each of us free will and drafts none of us. We are free to remain in His Church or to leave it for a mess of apostasy. It would be a tragedy if you were to leave but at least you are honest in admitting that you contemplate leaving the Church. You have the potential to be victimized by the persistent campaign of scandal against the Holy Father perpetrated by the heirs of the excommunicated Lefebvre's schism. You have the freedom not to be.

As to FSSP, no one ought to have the right to deny to a priest in good standing the right to say the Tridentine Mass OR the right to say the Novus Ordo. That those who imagine what can never be: tradition in defiance of the papacy, the Novus Ordo is obviously an abomination. Actually it is a valid Mass with a lot lower rent rubrics than the Tridentine, abysmal excuses for liturgical music, preening "presiders", communion in the paw, et al. It is STILL the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass whether the SSPX crew admits that or not. If no FSSP priest is REQUIRED to say the Novus Ordo, where is the beef of FSSP priests? That they will be contaminated by the presence in their order of other priests who say the Novus Ordo voluntarily?????

It is, in any event, none of SSPX's business since the original FSSP priests left SSPX specifically to return to Roman Catholicism and communion with the Holy See and SSPX stayed outside the Church which they have abandoned to endlessly congratulate themselves on their defiant disobedience in emulation of their excommunicated founder and bishops and to seduce others to join them outside the Church.

161 posted on 03/02/2004 1:12:23 AM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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