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To: ahadams2
no human in his right mind can love fallen humanity

While I totally reject the Augustinian heresy of the fallen nature of man, even if it were true, your statement would require you to reject either the humanity of Christ (plainly taught in Scripture) or that He loved fallen humanity.

Hank

26 posted on 02/26/2004 8:36:57 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
LOL! first of all the fallen nature of man is clearly demonstrated in both the Old and New Testaments. So let's be clear on this - you aren't rejecting *Augustinian* theology, you are rejecting Biblical theology viz:




Romans 7:14-25

14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.




So before we go any further we need to make a determination. It's quite simple, really, either Holy Scripture is the inerrant Word of God written (where all apparent contradictions are due merely to the limits of our human intellect and attribute no fault to the original texts) or it is not. Obviously I hold to the former view - the question is do you? If you do not, then there is no further point in continuing the discussion, since we have no common ground on which to argue. Note carefully, I did not say that one could never find apparent difficulties in Holy Scripture, but rather that those apparent difficulties are due to the fallen and limited nature of our (that's yours and mine) intellects; nothing more.

However, so as not to attempt to predict your answer one way or the other let me explain your mistake about the dual nature of Jesus Christ.

Your mistake is in assuming that Jesus, being the only sinless one, and yes both True God and true Man was limited by the same fallen nature we have in ourselves. That's your point of error. Certainly He could and did Love fallen humanity enough to die for us and rise again from the dead. However because of *our* fallen and sinful human nature (which Paul so well describes in the passage above) we are in and of ourselves as human beings completely unable to love others, most especially in the manner in which Christ calls us to love them. Indeed it is only by the Power of the Holy Spirit within a Christian that he may ever love *anyone* in the manner Christ intended. Again please note carefully that I did NOT say that no human ever tries to love another, nor did I say no human being ever tries to show love for another. Rather, it is that no human being, fallen and sinful as we are, can even hope to comprehend how Jesus Loves us and how He wants us to love others, without the empowerment of the Holy Spirit who comes into our hearts when we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Indeed those who have not accepted Him, and yet claim to love fallen humanity in the way He intends for us to love them, are only fooling themselves.
31 posted on 02/26/2004 9:01:04 PM PST by ahadams2 (Anglican Freeper Resource Page: http://eala.freeservers.com/anglican/)
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