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The Passion of the Christ & Anne Catherine Emmerich, Mary of Agreda
EWTN.com ^ | 02-20-04 | Colin B. Donovan, STL

Posted on 02/20/2004 8:22:13 AM PST by Salvation

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To: Dajjal
Yes -- the "problem" with the three men is that they were crucified on a Friday. Had it been Sunday, the Romans would have been happy to see their tortuous deaths prolonged as long as possible, as examples to all. But Christ's body had been subjected to too much (beginning with the strong emotions that caused him to sweat blood -- I wish that had somehow been made clear in the Gethsemane scene in the film) and He went into shock after only three hours.

Agreed. But I also read somewhere that His lungs filled with fluid.

In one of the interviews with Jim Caviezel, he said that while he was on the cross, enduring his dislocated shoulder was sheer agony, and he had a lot of trouble breathing.

I find it quite plausible that in His weakened condition, Jesus found it almost impossible to hold Himself up, in order to breathe. I'm sorry I can't cite sources, but I also read somewhere that it took all His remaining strength to lift Himself up, in order to take in enough air for His seven last Words.

I have often thought about this, and came to the conclusion years ago, that if Christ was not God, He never would have been able to survive the scourging.

By the way, I wondered if Mel Gibson had depicted the sweating of Blood. I think he should have.

I'm not sure if I will see this movie, because I really can't take the sight of blood - even "movie blood." I can visit Ground Zero, discuss the events of 9/11, and read survivor stories, but to actually see things like that, is a different story. I can handle it intellectually, but not visually.

However, in reading other's reactions to the film, and in thinking of how/why viewing it is very likely something that I really can't handle, I can still appreciate on a deeper level how far Jesus went, for love of me.

61 posted on 03/07/2004 9:53:48 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Give gays all the benefits of marriage? As the unmarried mother of 3 cats, I can't get a WIC check!)
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To: Lauren BaRecall
By the way, I wondered if Mel Gibson had depicted the sweating of Blood. I think he should have.

In the film, Christ is sweating profusely and trembling as He prays. I assume Caviezel was made-up sweating stage blood, but that it simply did not photograph well in the dark. The whole night-scene at Gethsemane has a bluish-grey tint to it.

I'm not sure if I will see this movie, because I really can't take the sight of blood - even "movie blood." ... I can handle it intellectually, but not visually.

From what you say, I would have to honestly recommend not seeing the film. It is not for the faint of heart.

I have often thought about this, and came to the conclusion years ago, that if Christ was not God, He never would have been able to survive the scourging.

The figure on the Shroud was lashed over 120 times with 2- and 3-pronged scourges (leaving over 220 stripes).

Jewish law set a maximum at 40 lashes -- and Dr. Zugibe says that the victims would usually pass out before that was reached.

I find it quite plausible that in His weakened condition, Jesus found it almost impossible to hold Himself up, in order to breathe. I'm sorry I can't cite sources, but I also read somewhere that it took all His remaining strength to lift Himself up, in order to take in enough air for His seven last Words.

That's from Dr. Barbet's book A Doctor at Calvary. Dr. Zugibe disputes the whole "needing to lift oneself up to breathe" theory.

http://shroud.com/zugibe.htm
"If Jesus was suspended with his hands directly above his head, then there indeed, would be difficulty breathing but not if the victim is suspended with his arms spread apart to create an angle of 65 to 70 degrees."
"Subjectively, every volunteer affirmed that they had absolutely no trouble breathing either during inspiration or expiration."

62 posted on 03/08/2004 9:15:23 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Dajjal
Dr. Zugibe's findings are very interesting - I read the article through, and I'll have to read it again.

Thank you for your recommendations regarding the movie. I may get the book of photos made during the filming. I think I can handle that, and thereby take part in the spirit of the film.

Have you ever read Eucharistic Miracles, by Joan Carroll Cruz? Here's a link:

http://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/264/

To me, the most captivating miracle is the one that took place in the 1200's, in the Italian town of Lanciano. It is still in existence. One day during Mass, a Priest was doubting the Real Presence. At the moments of consecration, the bread and wine transubstantiated into visible Flesh and Blood. Could this Priest be any more amazed than Thomas, when Christ appeared and told him to put his hand into His side?

Late in the last century, doctors tested the Sacred Species, and concluded two things that absolutely overwhelmed and awed me:

1. The Blood is type AB.

2. The Flesh is a very thin "slice" of varying thicknesses of striated heart muscle. One doctor stated that the Person endured very great stress.

Another interesting aspect of this miracle is that only the edge around the Host was visible Flesh; the center maintained the appearance of bread. In all these centuries, the visible Flesh remains, and the apparent Bread has disintegrated.

There is a double tabernacle in the church at Lanciano. The Miraculous Flesh and Blood can be observed by taking a stairway up and around the altar.

How gracious is Our Lord to subject Himself to the scrutiny of scientists, in order to encourage our faith! He handed Himself over to us for crucifixion, and through the ages, He continues to hand Himself over to us.

What an inconceivable blessing, which, in the words of Father Faber, is "so far surpassing hope or thought!"

63 posted on 03/09/2004 6:39:14 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Give gays all the benefits of marriage? As the unmarried mother of 3 cats, I can't get a WIC check!)
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To: Dajjal
Correction: Lanciano happened in the year 800.
64 posted on 03/09/2004 7:14:50 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Give gays all the benefits of marriage? As the unmarried mother of 3 cats, I can't get a WIC check!)
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To: Starwind
Did you really read this?
65 posted on 03/09/2004 8:37:55 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
Did you really read this?

Just now, yes, as a result of your ping. But you seem to have expected me to have read it earlier.

Honestly, I'm confused. :-)

66 posted on 03/10/2004 12:19:59 AM PST by Starwind (The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
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To: Lauren BaRecall
Yes, I know Cruz's books. The Miracle of Lanciano is very fascinating. AB is also the blood type found on the Shroud of Turin.
67 posted on 03/10/2004 12:30:13 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Dajjal
AB is also the blood type found on the Shroud of Turin.

:o)

68 posted on 03/10/2004 8:34:16 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Give gays all the benefits of marriage? As the unmarried mother of 3 cats, I can't get a WIC check!)
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To: Lauren BaRecall; Canticle_of_Deborah; Salvation; fatima; Aquinasfan; navygal; newberger; ...
I've read through vol. 3 "The Trasfixion" of The City of Gof of Ven. Mary of Agreda, and the two elements which Mel Gibson seems to have adopted from her are:

* the idea of Lucifer being a participant in the events of that day, beginning with Gethsemane
* the scene where the Roman soldiers turn the cross over in order to batter down the nails, and Christ's face is miraculously prevented from touching the ground.

69 posted on 03/25/2004 2:45:34 AM PST by Dajjal
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To: All
I mean The City of God of Ven. Mary of Agreda.

Whatta mistakea to makea!

70 posted on 03/25/2004 2:50:32 AM PST by Dajjal
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To: All
vol. 3 "The Transfixion"
71 posted on 03/25/2004 3:00:55 AM PST by Dajjal
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To: Salvation
Thanks, this is very interesting.
72 posted on 03/25/2004 3:01:49 AM PST by navygal
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To: Dajjal
Hi Dajjal,Thanks for the ping.I read that book so long ago .I don't remember much from it.
73 posted on 03/25/2004 4:03:32 AM PST by fatima (My Granddaughter is in Iraq-We unite with all our troops and send our love-)
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To: Lauren BaRecall; Dajjal
You made my mother's day. Her blood type is AB.
74 posted on 03/25/2004 12:35:37 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Dajjal
Huh. I've never read The City of Gof. I'll have to check that out.

;-)

I have the City of God. I'll look for those chapters :-)
75 posted on 03/25/2004 12:37:16 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Dajjal
But in Emmerich we do not have Christ meet Judas after being thrown over the bridge, nor do we have Pilate offering Christ water.

How about Mary of Agreda, she also experienced revelations.

76 posted on 03/25/2004 2:22:18 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul (Kerry's 3 Purple Hearts are: 2 for minor arm and thigh injury and 1 for killing a semi-dead VietCong)
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To: Dajjal
thanks for the ping and your awesome insights, Dajjal!

I'll keep this one bookmarked.

77 posted on 03/26/2004 10:26:25 PM PST by kstewskis ("The Passion of The Christ" is here...and no, I am NOT giving up Mel for Lent!)
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To: Victoria Delsoul
"But in Emmerich we do not have Christ meet Judas after being thrown over the bridge, nor do we have Pilate offering Christ water."
How about Mary of Agreda, she also experienced revelations.

No. Mary of Agreda does not have any bridge scene, nor Pilate offering Christ water.

78 posted on 03/27/2004 5:35:25 AM PST by Dajjal
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