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The Passion of the Christ & Anne Catherine Emmerich, Mary of Agreda
EWTN.com ^ | 02-20-04 | Colin B. Donovan, STL

Posted on 02/20/2004 8:22:13 AM PST by Salvation

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To: Dajjal
I guess I missed the conversion who pierced the side of Christ

I guess I missed the conversion of the soldier who pierced the side of Christ
41 posted on 03/01/2004 4:15:22 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
I guess I missed the conversion who pierced the side of Christ because of the horrid laughter. I guess I turned my head aside and did not see an expression on his face. What happened? (Without posting a spoiler......smile)

SPOILER (minor spoiler) SPACE

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The way Mel Gibson depicts it in the film, Cassius (Christian name Longinus) shoves the spear from Christ's right side diagonally up through His Sacred Heart to confirm that He is dead without breaking His legs.

When Cassius withdraws the spear, a stream of the Precious Blood pours down directly upon his head. His body is bathed with Christ's Blood (you cannot see the Water of His Pericardium, but you know It's there). We see his facial expression change and he drops to his knees at the foot of the Cross. This happens just before Abenadar (on his horse) removes his helmet in awe. (Emmerich says that Abenadar is the centurion quoted in the Gospels as saying "Truly this Man was the Son of God!" but in the film he is silent.) This is just before the earthquake begins.

In the few scenes cutting back to the general area on Calvary, Longinus is still kneeling before the Cross.

42 posted on 03/01/2004 4:23:35 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Dajjal
Do you have any book recommendations regarding the traditional beliefs you have written about (Adam buried at Calvary, etc)?
43 posted on 03/01/2004 4:33:54 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Dajjal, you sound like a professor?

No.

What does tradition say in regards to the Garden of Eden? .... What do you think?

Never really thought much about it. I knew Golgotha is Adam's burial place mostly from medieval art.

Another interesting factoid about Jerusalem is the ancient Jewish tradition (written down in one of the intertestamental pseudepigraphical Books of Enoch) that Mount Zion was the site of the Temple because it is the first piece of matter created. It is the rock that divided the waters above from the waters below. Hence the sacrifice performed there was simultaneously performed in Heaven.

This is the Rock that Christ identified with Peter and the popes. This is the Rock upon which His Catholic Church is founded -- i.e. has as a bedrock.

The Muslims are all worried that the Jews will retake the Dome of the Rock. It troubles me that the Catholic Church is not trying to acquire the Dome of the Rock. Medieval Crusaders believed that time could not be wound up (almost everyone thought the world would end around 1280) without Christians possessing Zion and Holy Mass being said on the Rock. Christ is expected to descend on a cloud onto Mount Zion.

44 posted on 03/01/2004 4:35:30 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
The traditions about Mount Zion are not from Emmerich, but bits I picked up here and there.

Martin Buber has a book on the Jewish traditions concerning Mount Zion.

45 posted on 03/01/2004 4:37:42 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Aquinasfan; Salvation; fatima; navygal; newberger
... the Shroud of Turin and historical studies of crucifixion argue strongly that the Crucified was nailed through the wrist, ....

According to Dr. Frederick Zugibe, Dr. Barbet ("A Doctor at Calvary") is wrong on just about everything. (I like Zugibe on the Shroud and crucifixion, which are his areas of expertise, but dislike him on Fatima, which is not his specialty.)

Dr. Zugibe is a medical examiner by profession, and does autopsies for a living (for Rockland County, NY; he has also taught at Columbia Univ.).

He has said that the reason the Shroud shows the nails as being through Christ's wrists is that on the Shroud we see only the backs of Christ's hands.

He says that the path of least resistance for a Roman soldier would be to insert the nail in the center of the palm, around the lifeline and the thumb muscles. The nail would go down diagonally and come out in back at the wrist, and from there into the wood of the cross. The hands would not lie flat against the wood. The upper hand would be off, away from the wood.

But the artists (and stigmatists) would be correct in the palm being the point of entry.

Dr. Zugibe also disagrees with Dr. Barbet as to the cause of Christ's death. Barbet said Christ died of suffocation, arguing that it is difficult for a crucified person to bring air into their lungs. But Barbet studied only crucified cadavers.

Zugibe, using college students and volunteers who hang on a cross for hours (hooked up to all sorts of monitors), has found that they do not have trouble breathing.

Zugibe holds that Christ died from shock, after all the trauma and blood loss suffered that day.

http://shroud.com/zugibe.htm

46 posted on 03/01/2004 5:16:17 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Do you have any book recommendations regarding the traditional beliefs you have written about (Adam buried at Calvary, etc)?

Sorry, but no. I can't think of any one place that has a lot of these altogether. It's usually just a page here and a footnote there and a sermon over yonder.

47 posted on 03/01/2004 5:17:42 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Dajjal
Thank you.
48 posted on 03/01/2004 5:59:24 PM PST by navygal (phillipians 4:13)
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To: Dajjal
Bump for #46. Thank you!
49 posted on 03/01/2004 6:10:50 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Dajjal
Dajjal,I have read that also which makes sense.
50 posted on 03/01/2004 6:23:28 PM PST by fatima
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To: Dajjal; Canticle_of_Deborah
Have you read any of the Maria Valtorta books; "the Poem of the Man-God"?
51 posted on 03/01/2004 7:36:22 PM PST by NewCenturions
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To: NewCenturions
I have never heard of her. I did some googling but got mixed information; some sources said her books were once banned/not approved, other sites attribute approval from Pius XII and Padre Pio. I don't know.
52 posted on 03/01/2004 7:49:32 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: NewCenturions
Have you read any of the Maria Valtorta books; "the Poem of the Man-God"?

Investigated her years ago -- came to the conclusion that I didn't trust her.

53 posted on 03/01/2004 8:58:35 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
BTW, Hitler thought he would be invincible after he seized the relics of the Spear of Longinus from the Hoffburg Museum in Vienna in 1938.

[N.B. The Vatican disputes Austria's claim, and holds that it possesses the true relics of the Spear at St. Peter's Basilica. There are a few other claimants as well.]

See The Spear of Destiny by Trevor Ravenscroft.

54 posted on 03/01/2004 9:48:14 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Salvation
Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich also has the conversion of Malchus -- the temple guard whose ear Christ restored.
55 posted on 03/01/2004 10:04:29 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Dajjal
That one I picked up from the facial expressions and body movements. (Guess it's the teacher in me -- so much of our communication is non-verbal.)
56 posted on 03/01/2004 10:11:54 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Dajjal
Wow!

As Hitler was an occultist, I can understand his line of thinking. I wonder if the Austrian sword was a fake or something else?
57 posted on 03/01/2004 11:26:28 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Dajjal
BTTT for this conversation!
58 posted on 03/02/2004 1:51:48 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Dajjal
Zugibe, using college students and volunteers who hang on a cross for hours (hooked up to all sorts of monitors), has found that they do not have trouble breathing.

That's why they break the legs!

59 posted on 03/07/2004 5:52:18 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Secret ZotLurker)
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To: Lauren BaRecall
Yes -- the "problem" with the three men is that they were crucified on a Friday. Had it been Sunday, the Romans would have been happy to see their tortuous deaths prolonged as long as possible, as examples to all.

But Christ's body had been subjected to too much (beginning with the strong emotions that caused him to sweat blood -- I wish that had somehow been made clear in the Gethsemane scene in the film) and He went into shock after only three hours.

60 posted on 03/07/2004 8:40:38 PM PST by Dajjal
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