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To: connectthedots; winstonchurchill
If, to the contrary, He does think and act, sequentially, (and, IF the biblical account shows that God has chosen to respect decisions of His creatures), then the determinist model is problematic.

In that I believe that my God is a God of order rather than disorder and that time is from eternity to eternity, God operates within time. Since the history of the world is measured in time as it relates to the birth of Christ, at least since his birth, I don't see how a reasonable person could conclude otherwise.

You are operating from the assumption that God has to act numerous times, in sequence, in order to interact with His Creation. That is like begging the question.

If we, rather, imagine God to be the Master and Creator of time, He can easiily act "once" (for lack of a better word) to fulfill all of His interaction with the created world. We will experience these interactions sequentially as we move through time. But God, who is not limited to time, and can see and know all things and all times, can simply act from eternity in a single action. Why would one assume that God acted, and then waited to see what happened, and then acted again, and waited again, etc.? This means God has to wait, and if God has to wait, then He is not perfect unto Himself. He is unfulfilled while He is idling waiting for our next action.

If we see a lot of land being cleared, then in subsequent weeks, the lot being levelled, then a basement is dug, and filled. Then a wood frame is erected, and walls and electricals are put into place. Finally, a roof and siding are put on, and the landscaping is done.

We see this play out over several weeks, or months. Yet, we recognize that someone has decided to build a house. Not that a sequence of events had been decided upon sequentially.

SD

39 posted on 02/06/2004 6:34:17 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
You are operating from the assumption that God has to act numerous times, in sequence, in order to interact with His Creation. That is like begging the question.

This statement makes no sense.

If we, rather, imagine God to be the Master and Creator of time, He can easily act "once" (for lack of a better word) to fulfill all of His interaction with the created world.

So what is God doing with the rest of his time? If God chose to predestine absolutely everything, why even bother going through the effort of the creation? This assumption of yours is nothing more than idle speculation.

We will experience these interactions sequentially as we move through time. But God, who is not limited to time, and can see and know all things and all times, can simply act from eternity in a single action.

Really? Then please explain how the Biblical account of creation took six days, with God resting on the seventh, fits within your assumptions. Seems to me that God was operating within time to me.

It also seems to me that such a position would also mean that the sequence of events would not be relevant. This is absurd on its face. Christ was not conceived, born, grow up, start his ministry, crucified, died, buried, rise again, and ascend into heaven all at the same moment.

God is a God of order and not disorder, and if man is made in the image of God, it would seem reasonable to me to think that God operates within time since man clearly thinks within time. I also think it is a bit of a stretch to use the phrase "God created time" when it seems reasonable to me that time is simply a characteristic of the nature of the world; and like God, has always existed. To think that time did not always exist would lead a reasonable person to question whether God always existed.

Why would one assume that God acted, and then waited to see what happened, and then acted again, and waited again, etc.? This means God has to wait, and if God has to wait, then He is not perfect unto Himself. He is unfulfilled while He is idling waiting for our next action.

God certainly has a plan for mankind, but doesn't the Bible say that God is patient, desiring that all be saved? I think God spends a lot of time waiting for men to turn to him and be obedient. I suppose God is often saddened by the actions of men, but I think he rejoices a lot, as well.

43 posted on 02/06/2004 7:18:20 AM PST by connectthedots (Recognize that not all Calvinists will be Christians in glory.)
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