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To: Warlord David
But even if God already knows are decision before we do, as long as we are able to decide for are selfs, base on what information we have. Its still free will, only God knows before we do.

Well, tell me how that works. Suppose God 'knows' that I'm going to say 'yes,' but then I change my mind and say, 'no.' Doesn't that leave us with the old determinist dodge, "Well, God knew he was going to change his mind, so he never really said 'yes'."

I am familiar with Mr. Wesley's explanation of God being outside 'history' and therefore can have (simple) foreknowledge. The problem is that it takes God outside of sequentiality. That's why open theism has some appeal.

23 posted on 02/05/2004 8:02:00 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: winstonchurchill
Perhaps he can jump from one format to the other and back again or something like it. Or do both at the same time. I think they call it multi-tasking.
24 posted on 02/05/2004 8:14:41 PM PST by Warlord David
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To: winstonchurchill
How about this: God knows all possible outcomes based on all possible choices and combined interaction of all choices, therefore all knowledge of what will happen is contained within God's knowledge.
26 posted on 02/05/2004 8:20:58 PM PST by TradicalRC (While the wicked stand confounded, Call me, with thy saints surrounded. -The Boondock Saints)
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To: winstonchurchill; xzins; Warlord David
The problem is that it takes God outside of sequentiality.

I don't think it does. We as mortal beings and part of God's physical creation still inhabit time and God inhabits eternity. Thus the fact that we change our minds has no effect on God's foreknowledge since, if God recognizes that we changed our minds NOW (in time), then God recognized it in eternity (outside of time and hence both at NOW and in sequence AND at the foundation of the earth simultaneously.

33 posted on 02/05/2004 10:31:14 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o* &AAGG)
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