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To: sheltonmac
Hmmmm…you bring up some interesting points.

"Foreknowledge" simply means that God knew us beforehand. It's only logical to assume that He would have to know about us before He could choose us. After all, even God cannot make a choice without knowing what it is He is choosing. I not sure that God would make His sovereign choice based on our decision. It’s still His method of salvation and He still comes to us and leads us in the fold.

One has to agree that our all-knowing Sovereign God would FORKNOWN each and every one of us before the foundations of the universe. That includes all choices we would make. Personally, I think this is VERY significant and goes to a major characteristic of God which resounds throughout the whole Bible.

If I understand you correctly you're saying that out of this foreknowledge God selected individuals based upon some unknown criteria. If I’ve interpreted you correctly I would say this unknown criterion is faith and God KNEW who would believe in Him because we are His workmanship.

Our response to His calling is based on faith, but Ephesians 2:8 teaches that faith itself is a gift from God. Man, in his fallen state, can only rebel against God. Paul reminds us in Romans 3:11 that "there is none who seeks after God."

I can see no conflict in my interpretation with Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no man may boast.”

Our salvation is unmerited grace as our gift from God. We cannot work for it. It is given to us unconditionally to the praise of God’s glory.

I agree that man in his fallen state can only rebel. But I have search the scriptures and can find no case of where faith is considered a “work” or a rebellious man cannot have faith. In fact it’s quite the contrary. Many times faith is contrasted with works (e.g. “Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.” Romans 3:27). Faith is not a work but what is it? The contrasting of the law to faith by Paul shows that if man can do works, man must be able to have faith.

Before you kick me out of the TULIP patch let me say understanding faith must be put into the context of God’s character and sovereignty. God is our CREATOR. We are made by Him. That includes every facet of our lives. Thus, I can only conclude that faith was predestined in Abraham (as in all believers) before the universe. Thus when God came along He KNEW that Abraham would have the faith because that is the way God made him. A small but significant difference that allows me to keep my TULIP membership. :O)

We don't know why God chooses the way He does; we just know that the He has His own reasons. As Paul write in Romans: What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. (Romans 9:14-16)

Why did God make Abraham to have faith in Him and not Abdu Smith in the next tent? I have no idea. I would agree with your statement. This is the Sovereignty of God.

I do believe the predestination and fall of man and the grace God bestows on His chosen is somehow involved in the judgment of Satan and his cohorts. However, there is very little information in the scriptures about this as I think God intended.

14 posted on 02/06/2004 10:55:42 AM PST by HarleyD (READ Your Bible-STUDY to show yourself approved)
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To: sheltonmac
Addedum:

Faith is a gift from God according to 1 Cor 13:2. Therefore, it is something given to us.
15 posted on 02/06/2004 11:52:29 AM PST by HarleyD (READ Your Bible-STUDY to show yourself approved)
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