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Why Catholics Leave the Catholic Church
ThyWillI ^ | February 2004

Posted on 02/01/2004 6:29:10 AM PST by NYer

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1 posted on 02/01/2004 6:29:10 AM PST by NYer
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To: NYer
** "There are not over a 100 people in the U.S. that hate the Catholic Church, there are millions however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church—which is, of course, quite a different thing."**

This is so true!
2 posted on 02/01/2004 6:30:21 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; CAtholic Family Association; narses; ...
Catholics cause Catholics to leave. But Catholics also help Catholics to stay.

As Aquinasfan suggested, pick up some of these pamphlets and leave them in conspicuous places or simply hand them out to lapsed catholics.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth - Answers to Questions About the Catholic Church

Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list


3 posted on 02/01/2004 6:36:48 AM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: Salvation; NYer
This article is good but it dances around the elephant in the livingroom. That elephant is a major cause of folks leaving right now...granted their catechesis may be weak, but when duplicity is blatant in the priesthood it takes extraordinary grace to remain Catholic.
4 posted on 02/01/2004 6:49:12 AM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: NYer
Good article NYer, thanks for the ping.

What he says about the mysticism or the supernatural/spiritual aspect of Catholicism is part of its great beauty.

So many don't outsiders and/or protestants don't understand the communion of saints until it's explained to them. That we are all together, one family who pray together and are at one with the Great Trinity.

Even liberals like that! Hehe

5 posted on 02/01/2004 6:55:04 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: Domestic Church
You're correct sir. The catechism is weak and feel good, instead of teaching what made our body great.
6 posted on 02/01/2004 6:57:28 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: Salvation
Interesting to read an article that doesn't mention child molestation.
7 posted on 02/01/2004 7:27:03 AM PST by B4Ranch ( Dear Mr. President, Sir, Are you listening to the voters?)
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To: NYer
*
8 posted on 02/01/2004 8:50:06 AM PST by Gal.5:1 (*read later)
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To: NYer
Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth is an excellent pocket reference. My thanks to Karl Keating for sending me a copy.
9 posted on 02/01/2004 8:50:28 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: NYer
The first was that I would not be able to rely on the intercession of the saints.

I do not believe that the saints only intercede for Catholics. Surely they intercede for far more than we can imagine.

Worse, it would mean forsaking the intimacy of actually taking Christ into me.

There doesn't seem to be a workaround for that. For a long time I've wondered, however, if graces are diverted from *some* Catholics and showered on those outside the fold because some are worthy of those graces through their faith and struggles.

10 posted on 02/01/2004 10:02:08 AM PST by Aliska
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To: AAABEST; Domestic Church; Aliska; Salvation; GirlShortstop; sandyeggo; american colleen; ...

Today's Mass Readings include St. Paul's discussion on 'love'. In his homily, Fr. Robert Altier makes an astute comment about catholics.

"One of the things we need to be exceedingly careful about is that God in His mercy has given to each one of us a desire – and, I trust, a love – for His truth that what we want is the fullness of His truth. But we also must realize that the average Catholic these days does not know very much about what that truth is. They have not been taught and it is not their fault. Certainly, they bear some responsibility to be able to learn the truth just as each one of us has had to do. But the question has to do with our attitude toward them. Do we stand in a judgmental way looking at them? In a prideful way? Do we put them down? Do we think that somehow we are better than they because we have “got it” and they do not? Imagine standing before the Lord one day and hearing Him say, “You had faith, but you had not love; therefore, you had nothing at all.” That would not be a good day. If we have faith, it must be exercised in love. "

"Look once again at the characteristics of love and ask yourself, “Is this me? Is this what people see when they speak to me, when they see my example? Am I patient and kind and gentle and selfless? Am I enduring all things and bearing all things and accepting all things? Am I truly seeking only the good of the other? Am I doing it in a way that will build them up rather than tearing them down?” That is what love requires. Each one of us needs to look extremely seriously at this matter because Saint Paul makes it exceedingly clear: If we have not love, we have NOTHING. Jesus commanded us to love; He did not make it an option. He did not say, “If you have faith, you don’t need love. If you have the gift of prophecy, you don’t need love. If you have found the truth, you don’t need love.” Nowhere will we find that. But love encompasses all of these other things, which is why, if we do not have love, we do not have the fullness of faith, the fullness of truth. If we have no love, we have no part in Jesus Christ, because God is love and only those who love can know God. "

FULL TEXT

11 posted on 02/01/2004 10:56:37 AM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: AAABEST; NYer; claritas; pseudo-ignatius; Desdemona; sandyeggo
Even liberals like that!

Very true. I once heard a Bishop, whom I respect a great deal as a holy man, say something that has stuck with me.

He said something like this: The main root of so much of the division in the Church right now is the utter absence of significant, deep, and profound preaching and teaching of Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity. The Church will be healed of her divisions as soon as Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity become the primary focus of preaching, teaching, evangelizing, prayer, worship, and action. Yes, even liberals like it (or perhaps do not know how to react) when the message is Jesus and the Holy Trinity. They react with fear and anger when the first message is sexual restraint, Church authority, or some ecclessiological doctrine dissacossiated from the truth of the Trinity and Incarnation. For too long Catholics have been obsessed with the state of the Church. We have been preaching competing ecclessiologies to each other, and the whole Church is drowning in a self-reflecting, self-absorbed, introspecting mode that leaves Christ and the Holy Trinity off to the side or in second place. We preach the Church, but not Christ. In reality, we should first proclaim Christ and the Holy Trinity, and the ecclesiology will take care of itself. How many "conservatives" do that? How many "conservative" Catholics are people whose whole lives are obviously and undeniably centered on, aimed at, and absorbed in the Holy Trinity and Jesus. As soon as the conservatives become living icons of the Holy Trinity, liberalism will evaporate. Until then, liberalism will continue to exercise its pernicious influence.

Let me give an illustration. Imagine joining a club the whole purpose of which is to talk about the club. You go to the club's meetings, and people talk about the club, and what the club should do. Eventually, it becomes clear that the club is about nothing if it is only about the club. Same with the Church, the Church is nothing unless the Church is first and foremost about Christ and the Trinity.

12 posted on 02/01/2004 11:47:20 AM PST by pseudo-justin
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To: NYer
Thank you for you #11 very much. The picture is beautiful and the text is humbling.
13 posted on 02/01/2004 11:57:16 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: pseudo-justin
Sound like a wise man.

He's correct, it's all about Him. The country club aspect can be very debilitating to us.

14 posted on 02/01/2004 12:01:13 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST; Salvation; sandyeggo; GirlShortstop; american colleen; saradippity; Domestic Church; ...
Thank you for you #11 very much.

While surfing the Internet one day, looking for a homily, I stumbled across this web site. I don't believe in coincidences! .... so, I will say that I was definitely 'guided' to this particular site. After reading just one of Fr. Altier's homilies, I determined that these veritable treasures needed to be shared with others, especially those of us who frequent this forum.

Freeper Salvation maintains a ping list for the Daily Mass Readings. Fr. Altier's daily homily is my contribution to her thread. Since the daily homily is not posted until after noon, they won't appear on the Daily Mass Thread until sometime in the afternoon. If you are not yet on Salvation's ping list, you may want to drop her a freepmail. Those Daily Mass Readings help me through the busy schedule of my day. Oftentimes, it is not possible to open a bible and sit down to read it. By visiting Salvation's daily thread, my soul is fed and refreshed each day. Here is the background story of Fr. Altier's homilies. God bless!

"The voice of one crying in the desert, 'Make ready the way of the Lord.'"

A desert in bloom speaks a language of praise,
Its beauty in stillness grows rich beyond sight.
Adorned for a banquet her splendid array,
Whose barrenness blooms for the King, His delight.
Creation her beauty inspired it sings,
In likeness to once a poor maiden avowed;
Resounding her elegance mystical brings,
Humility speaks exaltation aloud.
My heart gives in silence to love a great voice,
I cross my true passion, desires refine;
Ulterior motives suspended by choice;
To suffer rejoicing for love is divine.
In everything immanent Spirit reside;
Indwelling the darkness enlightened abide.

- Father Robert Altier

Father Altier in the sanctuary of Saint Agnes About Father Altier...

Father Robert Altier is a Roman Catholic priest in the archdiocese of Saint Paul-Minneapolis. Ordained in 1989, he currently serves as assistant pastor at the Church of Saint Agnes in Saint Paul, Minnesota. A member of the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites, Fr. Altier has a great devotion to the Holy Eucharist and Our Blessed Mother Mary, and is loyal to Pope John Paul II. Fr. Altier serves as president of Help the Helpless, a charitable organization benefitting handicapped children in India. His deep commitment to providing orthodox instruction of the Catholic Faith to the faithful led him to begin the ever-popular "Fundamentals of Catholicism" series which is attended by 150 people each year and is now in its 14th year. Recordings of this series and over 150 other talks by Father Altier are available through Divine Mercy Tapes (651-454-8800) and Leaflet Missal Company in Saint Paul, MN.

Father Altier About A Voice in the Desert...

This site was initiated and is maintained by parishioners who, having received many graces through the inspiring homilies given by Father Altier, wanted to provide a way for more people to benefit from these daily homilies. It is our hope that by listening, reading, and meditating upon these words, you will be filled with an intense desire for holiness, a true longing for union with God. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the greatest prayer of the Church and yields bountiful graces from God for all the faithful, even the entire world. We encourage you to assist at Mass as often as possible. In cases where daily attendance is impossible or a daily homily is not given at the church you attend, we hope this site will be helpful. If you cannot get to Mass daily, may we suggest that you read the Scripture readings for the day, then listen or read the homily, and make an Act of Spiritual Communion with Our Lord. Father suggests the following prayer:

An Act of Spiritual Communion

My Jesus, I believe that You are in the Blessed Sacrament. I love You above all things, and I long for You in my soul. Since I cannot now receive You sacramentally, come at least spiritually into my heart. As though You have already come, I embrace You and unite myself entirely to You; never permit me to be separated from You.

- Enchiridion of Indulgences

15 posted on 02/01/2004 1:29:46 PM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: NWU Army ROTC
Ping to post #15!
16 posted on 02/01/2004 1:34:23 PM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: NYer
You have FReepmail
17 posted on 02/01/2004 1:36:59 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
Thank you.
18 posted on 02/01/2004 2:27:23 PM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: EsclavoDeCristo
Ping. Bookmarked for later reading.
19 posted on 02/01/2004 3:37:03 PM PST by RockDoc (EsclavoDeCristo's proud Papa)
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To: Domestic Church; Aliska; pseudo-justin; pseudo-ignatius
Domestic Church wrote: This article is good but it dances around the elephant in the livingroom. That elephant is a major cause of folks leaving right now...granted their catechesis may be weak, but when duplicity is blatant in the priesthood it takes extraordinary grace to remain Catholic.

It's sad that people leave. It's very sad that there are problems severe enough that make people feel that way.

Why a Catholic university would become involved with the culture of death is very disturbing. This kind of hypocrisy should not be present among genuine Catholic spiritual leaders:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1068813/posts Georgetown U Frankenstein Research

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1068614/posts Georgetown Weird Research Continues

20 posted on 02/01/2004 4:03:42 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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