Replies

No...I say splinter the Church as much as it takes! I am happy I have a place to go where I can embrace Christ and not the world. I am happy to hear glorius chant rather than guitar strumming. I am happy to see Priests solemnly offer the holy sacrifice and not have some sort of rave party. If it were not for (St.) Marcel Lefebvre, we would have nothing left.

For a return to sanity in the Church
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!
For the light of the Latin language to expell the darkness of heresy.
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!
For a liturgically orthodox Pope
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!
For the triumph of Tradition.
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!
For the return of reverence in the liturgy.
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!
For the return of righteous seminary education.
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!
For the triumph of the Tridentine Mass.
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!
For the expulsion of sodomite elements in the clergy.
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!
For right worship.
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!
For the true faith.
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!
For the expulsion of heterodoxy bishops
(St.) Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us!

You should give Marcel titles in your litany. Like this:

Marcel, Disobeyer of Rome, ora pro nobis.

Marcel, Ordainer of Dissidents, ora pro nobis.

Marcel, Father of Schismatics, ora pro nobis.

Marcel, King of Pride, ora pro nobis.

Marcel, First Among Excommunicates, ora pro nobis.

Marcel, Vatican II Father and Supporter, ora pro nobis

Marcel, Joy of Luther, ora pro nobis

Marcel, Sower of Anger, ora pro nobis

My version is more traditional. :0)

I never thought I would find myself having to defend the Novus Ordo mass, but then I never thought to hear such attacks on the Church and the Apostolic See from a "traditional Catholic".

As long as the Church has existed it has been made clear that the Pope and the bishops, as successors of the apostles, are guarded from error, given the wisdom needed to carry on Christ's work and that unity with them is essential for salvation. When the apostles held council at Jerusalem and broke from the 'traditional' Jewish laws, would you stand with the Pharisees accusing them of heresy? Why accept the Tridentine Mass? If God did not protect Bl. John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I and John Paul II from error, how do you know St Pius V was protected? Why is Latin the *only* acceptable language, why not go back to Aramaic or Hebrew?

As I said, I prefer the Latin and wish myself it would be restored, but the language is not the point. When St Thomas went to spread the gospel in India did he say mass in Latin you think? I doubt if all the apostles even knew Latin. Why did Jesus give them the "gift of tongues" if they were to only speak a single language? I think the Latin language was invaluable at giving the Church a sense of its own united identity, of being a seperate 'nation', truly the Kingdom of God on earth. But, I can't make language the most important thing, as much as I love the Latin Mass, I see too many people making it into their own "golden calf".

Marcel Lefebvre could never be a saint. When he was ordained he took a vow to be obedient to the Church, the bishops and the Holy Father, just as men and women vow to be faithful to each other in marriage, he vowed to be faithful to the Church and obedient to his superiors. Yet, he broke that vow just as an adulterer breaks the vow of marriage. No matter how many good points he had, there is no justification for breaking an oath to God. He could have remained in the Church and been the conservative answer to Cardinal Mahoney, he could have ensured that the Tridentine Mass was offered as much as possible in his diocese and built up a stronghold for the Tridentine rite *within* the Church, to be an example to others, he could have beat the liberals at their own game--but he didn't.

Where would we be if St Catherine of Sienna had taken his attitude toward the Church and simply broken away instead of doing all in her power to set things right? He could have been a St Pius V or a Martin Luther, and he chose to be a Luther. Moreover, he took the name of my beloved St Pius X, a man who stressed over and over the need for unfailing loyalty to the Papacy and authority of the Church.

There is a word for Christians who do not recognize the Pope as their supreme leader on earth or the authority and special protection of the Church: they're called "Protestants"