The truth is rooted in history.

[The Truth will set you Free]

To find the true church of Christi, which was given to us by Jesus as the church on top the mountain and the light of truth. One only needs to look into the history of Christianity. One must read the Bible of course, but also the writings of the early church fathers. Ignatius, Polycarp, Clement, Jerome, Augustine, and Aquinas to name a few; (newadvent.org)is a good place to find these writings. Yes, it is true that there have been scandals within the church. Old and some more recent, but in historical study one finds that they were over exaggerated in much of the details as the media does today. The simple fact is people are weakend by their human nature and are prone to make mistakes. This is why God(Jesus) did not leave us orphans; people will falter but the gates of hell will not prevail against his church. If the Catholic Church was truly a human institution it would have failed a long time ago. (To the one who looks into these troubled times of the church; also look for the Saints in that time period. You will find God puts his instruments to work at the right times.)

Now, about the talk on the real presence of God in the Eucharist. One needs only to read John Ch-6 to find what is needed. "Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal." (John 6:27) "I am the bread that came down from heaven," : and they said, "is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph? Do we not know his father and mother? Then how can he say,`I have come down from heaven`?`` Jesus answered and said to them, "Stop murmuring among yourselves, No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day. It is written in the prophets: `They shall all be taught by God.`(Is 54:13; Jer 31:33-34.)(John 6:41-45). "I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."(John 6:51). "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. ... the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. ..whoever eats this bread will live forever." (John 6:53-58) "DOES THIS SHOCK YOU? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.".."For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father." As a result of this , many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. (John 6:61-66). This again is made clear in the last supper before the passion of Christ. Now, one must ask themseleve if they will stay with Jesus or leave him. "Master, to whom shall we (I) go? You have the words of eternal life." (John 6:68).

[trussell]

Why did you choose to post a vanity for your first post?

[gcruse]

The religion forum is thataway. >>>

[Windshark]

Are you saying the Catholic church is the only one true church and has never done or been wrong ?

Good luck defending that one.....

[claptrap]

If the Catholic Church were truly a human institution it would have failed?
There are many institutions which have lasted much longer
having been established by humans.
Example: Budda worship, Satanism, Hinduism.
The diversion from biblical principals which is most apparent in the Catholic church is their blatant disreguard of the second commandment.
Sorry to point this out but you do have to admit that graven images of Christ abound in their houses of worship.

[trussell]

This one may be of some interest.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

"Church" history should begin with the history of the Jews. The Bereans and Paul thought so.

[Markofhumanfeet]

Well technically, maybe with Abraham.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Well technically, maybe with Abraham.

Indeed. I should have said Hebrews instead of Jews.

[Markofhumanfeet]

Well no, after all Abraham is the father of many nations

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Well no, after all Abraham is the father of many nations

Yes. An Hebrew who happens to be the father of many nations.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

After all, he was an Hebrew long before he received that promise.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

I am going to quote Our Sunday Visitors "Study Bible" note on that topic:

"Statues are an aid to veneration of the saints and a means or remembrance of the heroes of the faith. None of this is in opposition to God. St. Jerome said that "we show veneration to the servaants so that it might radiate back from them to the Lord." No Catholic who knows anything about the Catholic Faith has ever worshiped a statue of plaster (as in idolatry). Devotion to saints no more interferes with or corrupts the unique adoration due to God than does love for our friends and relatives."

In direct response to your comment about statues and pictures of Christ, they aren't worshiped, though certainly a degree of reverence is shown to them, but we don't mistake them for God. If someone is worshiping a statue of Christ as Christ, then they are mistaken and have a misformed faith. That of course is a fault of their teachers and priests and should be corrected.

[Markofhumanfeet]

I agree, he was the first to believe and of his progeny, some were spiritual and some were not, to this day

[Invincibly Ignorant]

In direct response to your comment about statues and pictures of Christ, they aren't worshiped, though certainly a degree of reverence is shown to them, but we don't mistake them for God. If someone is worshiping a statue of Christ as Christ, then they are mistaken and have a misformed faith. That of course is a fault of their teachers and priests and should be corrected.

The Israelites didn't mistake the Golden Calf for God either. They had planned a feast to the LORD the following day.

Exodus 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

Aaron and others still knew who the Lord was. Because some of the mixed multitude that accompanied them out of Egypt believed otherwise it messed it up for the entire nation.

[dangus]

>>The Israelites didn't mistake the Golden Calf for God either.>>

Exactly. They knew they were explicitly turning away from God, opposing his will and seeking another god in his place. This is why the prohibition is against worshipping graven (better translation: molten) gods.

Catholics do not worship images, ascribe to them independent powers, or seek them to circumvent God's will.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Catholics do not worship images, ascribe to them independent powers, or seek them to circumvent God's will.

Not intentionally anyway.

[GirlShortstop]

Sorry to point this out but you do have to admit that graven images of Christ abound in their houses of worship.

Perhaps "Sorry" was a fine choice for you to begin your under-informed statement.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains:  "Since you saw no form on the day that the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure. . . ."  It is the absolutely transcendent God who revealed himself to Israel.   "He is the all," but at the same time "he is greater than all his works."  He is "the author of beauty."

Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word:  so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.

Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints.  By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.

The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.  The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.

 

[Invincibly Ignorant]

God commanded what the tabernacle should contain. Councils and the magesterium are not God to me. Perhaps your church should take the lead of King Josiah and clean house as he did with the ashtoreth in the high places.

[Markofhumanfeet]

Could you define just what you mean by this? After all I don't think too many Catholics burn incense under oak trees. Maybe you have mistaken them for Druids?