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To: OLD REGGIE
This list, essentially compiled by one man, doesn't cut the mustard.

Well, no, that's not accurate. They maintain a full-time staff. It is the result of decades of effort. They claim that over 400 specialists, such as J. Gordon Melton of the Encyclopedia of American Religions, supplied the project with data. The book is published by a very reputable publisher. "One man" does not compile and create a multi-volume work of hand-gathered stats regarding a worldwide activity. Dismissing its relevance will require more than an offhanded comment.

I will agree there are hundreds, maybe even thousands, of "Independent" Protestant Churches in the United States alone.

Darn. After you requested that I "merely list" 500 Protestant denominations, I pulled together a list of 600 such denominations in the U.S. alone (which does not even include all of the independent "non-denom" denominations). I suppose now that I have the list, you'll no longer be "satisfied"? Is this some clever way to concede my point, but deny its relevance? Darn again! ;-)

The fundamental theology of nearly all these "Churches" is similar enough that Pastors can come and go without missing a beat.

Then how does one account for all the Protestant "church-shopping" that occurs? How do you account for all the new unaffiliated shopping-mall churches that pop-up? How do you account for the fact that the number of Protestant denominations is growing, not shrinking? How do you account for Christ the King, Graceland Independent Anglican Church of Canada with its faux-Elvis as a pastor? (You don't have to answer that last one. I just find it amusing to reference it.)

The basic theology is so much at issue that the SoF's for some of these denoms have devolved into "mere Christianity". In fact, their SoF's will often specifically require their members NOT to go into controversial areas of theology. Since controversy surrounds such "main things" as salvation, faith, worship, grace, sin, prayer, church, etc., not much is left to be a "plain thing". You end up with not much more than "Jesus is God" and "the Bible Alone (sola Scriptura) is our rule of faith".

As a matter of fact Protestant Ministers of the major Protestant Denominations will exchange pulpits and Churches with no problem. Once again, where is the theological difference?

Within a denomination - none whatsoever.
Starting a new church - all the difference in the world.

It is a pretty safe bet that when one such as you pulls out the 30,000 number the intent is not to have a reasonable discussion. In fact it could be called "Protestant Bashing". Bash away if it makes you feel better.

So, I quote a serious Christian reference book and therefore I engage in "Protestant bashing"? Hardly.

No, it is not my purpose to engage in "Protestant bashing". I am, however, making a reductio ad absurdum argument regarding a foundational aspect of Protestantism. To wit: sola Scriptura results in multiple theological systems because it relies on private judgment. And of the resulting "N" Protestant theological systems, at least "N-1" are wrong.

For such an argument to work, the absolute number of theological systems ("N") is, for all practical purposes, irrelevant. 30,000 or 3,000 or even 300 - it doesn't matter - as long as their respective theologies are different. It would appear that you've conceded that point because it appears (a) you've conceded the issue of numbers and (b) your final (main?) argument now relies on attacking my motives.

Virtually all of the serious denominations use their private interpretation of Scripture as their raison d'etre. (No, I don't think the Graceland church is serious or that the pastor found Elvis in the Bible. ;-)

The reality of Denominationalism disproves sola Scriptura and it's necessary corollaries of perspicuity (clarity) and private judgment. All the major heresies relied on the principle of sola Scriptura. So a mere appeal to the Bible is not sufficient to determine orthodoxy. Even Satan used Sacred Scripture to tempt the Lord Himself.

Sola Scriptura leads, not to "one flock" but to a multiplicity of flocks. Not to "one truth" but to contradictory "truths". Not to perspicuity but to confusion. Not to one faith, but to heresy.
702 posted on 01/24/2004 4:19:11 PM PST by polemikos (Ecce Agnus Dei)
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To: polemikos
The reality of Denominationalism disproves sola Scriptura and it's necessary corollaries of perspicuity (clarity) and private judgment.

You just cut off the limb you're sitting on. If sola Scriptura must be rejected for failing to keep unity, so must the Papacy and the Magisterium. If your authority can't keep "a bunch of them from up and leaving" (or something like that), as another Catholic poster described the reformation (I don't remember the screen name and haven't got enough time to look, but feel free to ping her yourself), what room do you have to criticize my authority (which is the Bible) because it can't keep people from up and leaving? None, that's how much.

All the major heresies relied on the principle of sola Scriptura.

Montanism. Mormonism. Moonies. JWs.

705 posted on 01/24/2004 4:42:57 PM PST by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
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To: polemikos
Then how does one account for all the Protestant "church-shopping" that occurs?

I dunno, maybe the same thing that accounts for Catholic "Parish Shopping".

Just for the fun of it why don't you post a working definition of Sola Scriptura.

I suspect you have a far different understanding than Augustine for example.

817 posted on 01/25/2004 11:51:47 AM PST by OLD REGGIE ((I am a cult of one! UNITARJEWMIAN) Maybe a Biblical Unitarian?)
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