Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Hermann the Cherusker
The destruction of the Church is a direct causal outcome of the result of World War II and the cultural revolution that followed in its wake. The Allied/Communist victory in World War II destroyed the traditional basis of an exclusionary Christian society in Europe and America. The cultural revolution was the natural outcome of trends coming directly out of its aftermath,

Please enlighten us Hermann.

Were the Allies wrong to save the world from Hitler?

Were they wrong to stop him from exterminating the Jews and likely Catholics next?

Should the evil American fornicators have stood by and done nothing while the occultist Hitler moved to invade all of Europe to establish his empire?

Was Pius XII wrong to house and feed thousands of Italian Jews who took refuge in the Vatican?

Was Pius XII wrong to oppose Hitler's plans???

If America had done nothing would Europe be a Catholic nirvana today, or would Catholicism be all but extinct as Hitler envisioned?

65 posted on 01/21/2004 2:03:18 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies ]


To: Canticle_of_Deborah; Maximilian
Were the Allies wrong to save the world from Hitler?

Since Hitler was not after the world, it did not need saving from him. His interest - destroying and subjugating Soviet Russia. Was it worth it to destroy Germany to save Communism?

Were they wrong to stop him from exterminating the Jews and likely Catholics next?

They didn't stop it, did they? And this wasn't the reason we went to war, was it? And America had the same sort of exclusion of Jews from society as Germany did into the 1950's, didn't it? And the Jews weren't being exterminated until the rest of the world refused to let them migrate out, post 1941, were they? Nobody wanted them! What was Nazi Germany supposed to do with a subversive element? Mollycoddle them? Did we Mollycoddle the Japanese in the US and Latin America (yes, we went and rounded them up in Peru and Mexico and elsewhere too)? Save yourself from the modern propaganda!

Should the evil American fornicators have stood by and done nothing while the occultist Hitler moved to invade all of Europe to establish his empire?

Lest you forget, France and Britain declared war on Hitler, not the other way around. Left to himself, it is likely he would have made do with what he was interested in - the riches of Soviet Russia. Invading and occupying the rest of Europe was a defensive burden imposed on Germany by Britain to prevent Hitler from achieving his aims of a Russian Empire for Germany (rather hypocritical from the leader of the British Empire with all its subjugated Indians and Africans and Maylays and Arabs, no?).

Was Pius XII wrong to house and feed thousands of Italian Jews who took refuge in the Vatican?

No.

Was Pius XII wrong to oppose Hitler's plans???

Yes. Pius XII is a spiritual leader and should have used spiritual weapons - like excommunicating Hitler - if he was a spiritual problem. He had no business orchestrating spy netowrks infiltrated by criminals and communists and endangering the Church in this manner. Ever read Loftus and Aaron's work "Unholy Trinity" about the Rote Kapelle and Schwarze Kapelle? Great read. Maybe I'll post some of the embarrassing State Department documents from it.

Do you think it right for the current Pope to oppose American plans in Iraq? Is that really why he is Pope?

If America had done nothing would Europe be a Catholic nirvana today, or would Catholicism be all but extinct as Hitler envisioned?

Probably the former, and I am unaware of any writing of Hitler where he "envisioned" the latter outcome. First, Catholicism was quite free of Hitler in Italy and Spain, since other men ran those countries. Second, Catholic Slovakia and Croatia were being run by Catholics (Slovakia by a Priest, Fr. Tiso) as Catholic States, not run by Hitler. Third Catholic France got into trouble by picking a fight it should not have. Even so, Hitler seemed happy to leave it alone to Catholics like Petain and Laval. Fourth, Catholic Belgium was intended by Hitler to be left to the hands of Leon DeGrelle, founder of the Christus Rex Party. Fifth, Catholic Ukraine was an ally of Hitler and established as the leaders of that country by him. Sixth, this leaves the only areas in trouble as Catholics in Germany and Poland. Hitler was not opposed to the Church carrying out its spiritual mission in his greater Germany provided it steered completely clear of politics. He was not about to slaughter half his countrymen and all Poles, if for no other reason than he saw all Germans as the chosen race, and a vast number of the Poles as Polonized Germans (anyone who looked "Aryan", for which they were given racial ceritificates). It is very likely that after Hitler's death, Naziism would have naturally been moderated in its authoritarian stance, since it was a cult of personality with no plausible successor. It is not reasonable, reading about Hitler's health problems, to imagine him living through the 1950's war or not. And the Church was the largest counter organization in the country and would always be a force to be reckoned with. Hitler found it impossible to subvert it during 12 years of authoritarian control. Its extremely unlikely he could have ever suceeded when 2/3 of the country's population (Bavaria, Rhineland, Baden, Bohemia, Austria, Upper Silesia, West Prussia, Westphalia) was Catholic, and most of the populace armed (contrary to other propaganda Germans had long had personal firearms, until the US Army boys came and confiscated, errr, "liberated" them all).

Lastly, for all of Hitler's persecutions, the German Church still saw through it to offer a Solemn Requiem for Hitler upon the announcement of his death on 5/1/45, at the direction of Cardinal Bertram of Breslau, head of the German Bishops. How bad could it have "really" been (as opposed to the post-war propaganda put out to make Catholics look like victims for political reasons) to have done that when it was obvious and had been for some time that it was all over but the crying? Apparently, Cardinal Betram was being quite sincere to his true beliefs when he ordered it.

You should do some work of seperating out convenient post-war propaganda from actual occurances. Simple point - if Hitler really meant to wipe out the Church, then he could have simply rounded up all the Priests and Bishops and Seminarians one day and shot them, like the Soviets did, or like he did with recalcitrant Communists. He didn't because he wasn't out to wipe out the Church.

71 posted on 01/21/2004 2:38:22 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson