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In the throes of revolution? recently instituted? I thought Vatican II was in the 60's, or how many decades past do you still consider "recent"? No, I was obviously not aware the gates of Hell were prevailing against the Church.

You also seem to have misunderstood my post by your effort to contradict me with Scripture. I never said which extreme was right or wrong, all I said was that neither one is doing their professed goal any good.

From what I know of the pre-Vatican II ways, I would like that to still be the rule today. However, it is the methods of the "traditionalists" that I cannot agree with. Frankly, I have found the attitude of many quite disturbing. I also have to say that I have found just as much liberal condemnation against Paul VI and John Paul II for refusing to relent on contraception, reemphasizing Eucharistic adoration and refusing to give in on the women-priest issue.

In the church I grew up in, many people didn't know the official doctrines, absolutely no one agreed with all of them, everyone could pretty much make it up as they go, it was extremely nepotistic with every church being dominated by the pastor's family & relatives (who in some cases were my own kin) and what my friends in the Catholic Church told me was: our Church is the answer, the Catholic Church is Christ's Church, united by the Pope, protected from error by the Holy Spirit, carries on Christian truth regardless of passing trends, etc, etc.

Boy, does it look like I got it wrong. On another thread I was getting attacked on every side by an Orthodox and two Protestants for defending the Catholic Church, and I kept wondering why no one else was speaking up in defense of the Church. Now, I can see why, if even the Catholics no longer approve of the Catholic Church, the ship must be going down.

I just read your home page. I lived in Laredo and Del Rio 40 or so years ago for about 5 years. I have two babies buried along the Rio Grands.

Is Ramirez Red and White still there? How about Richter's Department store?

I intend to visit their graves with my sons in the near future. Since everyone is working,it is hard to come up with a time we all can go.

We lived in a partially converted,abandoned Masonic temple for several months. Ugh. What experiences I had along the river. It is a true affirmation of the strength of the Faith that my sons and I are all well and Catholic. My husband went from Del Rio to Nam and was shot down there.

For some years,shortly after his death I got confused and caught up with the spirit of Vat II,it was pretty bad and I can truthfully say "been there,done that,grew up".Don't let all this back and forth even if a bit venomous at times discourage you. Arm yourself visibly with the Bible,the CAtechism and the encyclicals of the last few years,pray unceasingly and speak out the Truth at every oppurtunity and despite the flak and the rocking the Barque will stay afloat and it is a wild and wonderful ride Home.