Posted on 01/20/2004 7:24:59 AM PST by Maximilian
What's there to be grateful for? Millions of deaths and half the world enslaved? Saving Uncle Joe Stalin's chestnuts? All the new cases of veneral disease brought back? All the post-war divorces that gave the jump start to the divorce industry? The Veterans in my family realize what a stupid and brutal war it was.
If you think I'm being vile, why not look up how many condoms the US Army distributed per month during WWII? Why not ask an older German lady what the loaded question "Spazierengehen Fraulein?" meant when coming from a Army man in 1946?
Here's a vote from another so-called Catholic Traditionalist who obviously didn't have the benefit of your Fatima wisdom:
I am worried by the Blessed Virgin's messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning aginst the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul....I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the univeral flame of the Church, reject Her ornaments and make Her feel remorse for Her historical past.
A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will tempted to believe that man has become God. In our churches, Christians will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them. Like Mary Magdalene, weeping before the empty tomb, they will ask, "Where have they taken Him?"
-----Pope Pius XII
Good, I think it is pretty obvious, unlike with the post-war aftermath of WWI, which didn't have the results we see now.
If one were "very, very" Norse he wouldn't be German, and vice-versa. And if you family tree goes back 1000 years, then there wasn't any distinction between Germany and France, so you may have more than "a drop of French blood" after all. Charlemagne would be considered a German by today's standards.
My dad's family was very, very 100% German. My mom's family is very, very 100% Norse (Anglo-Norman and Norwegian). We can trace them back 500-1000 years. Hence my statement.
And Charlemagne was a German - Kaiser Karl der Grosse, holding court at Aachen (not Aix-La-Chappelle), in the German language, not a Roman tongue. The real French are really German Franks. The short dark haired "French" are really Gallo-Romans.
But I'm not even a Frank because my dad's family is pure Allemanian from Switzerland, the Palatinate, Alsace, Baden, and environs.
Please enlighten us Hermann.
Were the Allies wrong to save the world from Hitler?
Were they wrong to stop him from exterminating the Jews and likely Catholics next?
Should the evil American fornicators have stood by and done nothing while the occultist Hitler moved to invade all of Europe to establish his empire?
Was Pius XII wrong to house and feed thousands of Italian Jews who took refuge in the Vatican?
Was Pius XII wrong to oppose Hitler's plans???
If America had done nothing would Europe be a Catholic nirvana today, or would Catholicism be all but extinct as Hitler envisioned?
Not so! Pius XII was full speed ahead for collaboration with the Allies/Communists despite the fact that Catholic Europe was on the other side (willingly or not). Fish rot from the head. As Mary Ball Martinez put it in "The Undermining of the Catholic Church" (I can't reccomend this book enough) of Pius XII in WWII:
"His priority? Jews, not Catholics."
Lest we forget, it was Pius XII who appointed Bugnini and Antonelli in 1947, and Pius XII who initiated the planning of Vatican II, carried into effect by his less than forthright sucessor pretending that he had come up with the idea on his own. Judaizing agents of B'nai Brith and the AJC like Cardinal Bea and Fr. Malachi Martin were appoitnees of Pius XII.
Yes, the Church, considered as a whole can and will always preserve all that is best. But the institution has been in revolutionary hands since the death of Pius XI, following a course plotted by Cardinal Rampolla at the turn of the century. Outwardly, this no longer can appear so.
Do you own a history book? Or do you not view the Jewish Holocaust as important?
"His priority? Jews, not Catholics."
There is something seriously unholy going on with you Hermann.
Since Hitler was not after the world, it did not need saving from him. His interest - destroying and subjugating Soviet Russia. Was it worth it to destroy Germany to save Communism?
Were they wrong to stop him from exterminating the Jews and likely Catholics next?
They didn't stop it, did they? And this wasn't the reason we went to war, was it? And America had the same sort of exclusion of Jews from society as Germany did into the 1950's, didn't it? And the Jews weren't being exterminated until the rest of the world refused to let them migrate out, post 1941, were they? Nobody wanted them! What was Nazi Germany supposed to do with a subversive element? Mollycoddle them? Did we Mollycoddle the Japanese in the US and Latin America (yes, we went and rounded them up in Peru and Mexico and elsewhere too)? Save yourself from the modern propaganda!
Should the evil American fornicators have stood by and done nothing while the occultist Hitler moved to invade all of Europe to establish his empire?
Lest you forget, France and Britain declared war on Hitler, not the other way around. Left to himself, it is likely he would have made do with what he was interested in - the riches of Soviet Russia. Invading and occupying the rest of Europe was a defensive burden imposed on Germany by Britain to prevent Hitler from achieving his aims of a Russian Empire for Germany (rather hypocritical from the leader of the British Empire with all its subjugated Indians and Africans and Maylays and Arabs, no?).
Was Pius XII wrong to house and feed thousands of Italian Jews who took refuge in the Vatican?
No.
Was Pius XII wrong to oppose Hitler's plans???
Yes. Pius XII is a spiritual leader and should have used spiritual weapons - like excommunicating Hitler - if he was a spiritual problem. He had no business orchestrating spy netowrks infiltrated by criminals and communists and endangering the Church in this manner. Ever read Loftus and Aaron's work "Unholy Trinity" about the Rote Kapelle and Schwarze Kapelle? Great read. Maybe I'll post some of the embarrassing State Department documents from it.
Do you think it right for the current Pope to oppose American plans in Iraq? Is that really why he is Pope?
If America had done nothing would Europe be a Catholic nirvana today, or would Catholicism be all but extinct as Hitler envisioned?
Probably the former, and I am unaware of any writing of Hitler where he "envisioned" the latter outcome. First, Catholicism was quite free of Hitler in Italy and Spain, since other men ran those countries. Second, Catholic Slovakia and Croatia were being run by Catholics (Slovakia by a Priest, Fr. Tiso) as Catholic States, not run by Hitler. Third Catholic France got into trouble by picking a fight it should not have. Even so, Hitler seemed happy to leave it alone to Catholics like Petain and Laval. Fourth, Catholic Belgium was intended by Hitler to be left to the hands of Leon DeGrelle, founder of the Christus Rex Party. Fifth, Catholic Ukraine was an ally of Hitler and established as the leaders of that country by him. Sixth, this leaves the only areas in trouble as Catholics in Germany and Poland. Hitler was not opposed to the Church carrying out its spiritual mission in his greater Germany provided it steered completely clear of politics. He was not about to slaughter half his countrymen and all Poles, if for no other reason than he saw all Germans as the chosen race, and a vast number of the Poles as Polonized Germans (anyone who looked "Aryan", for which they were given racial ceritificates). It is very likely that after Hitler's death, Naziism would have naturally been moderated in its authoritarian stance, since it was a cult of personality with no plausible successor. It is not reasonable, reading about Hitler's health problems, to imagine him living through the 1950's war or not. And the Church was the largest counter organization in the country and would always be a force to be reckoned with. Hitler found it impossible to subvert it during 12 years of authoritarian control. Its extremely unlikely he could have ever suceeded when 2/3 of the country's population (Bavaria, Rhineland, Baden, Bohemia, Austria, Upper Silesia, West Prussia, Westphalia) was Catholic, and most of the populace armed (contrary to other propaganda Germans had long had personal firearms, until the US Army boys came and confiscated, errr, "liberated" them all).
Lastly, for all of Hitler's persecutions, the German Church still saw through it to offer a Solemn Requiem for Hitler upon the announcement of his death on 5/1/45, at the direction of Cardinal Bertram of Breslau, head of the German Bishops. How bad could it have "really" been (as opposed to the post-war propaganda put out to make Catholics look like victims for political reasons) to have done that when it was obvious and had been for some time that it was all over but the crying? Apparently, Cardinal Betram was being quite sincere to his true beliefs when he ordered it.
You should do some work of seperating out convenient post-war propaganda from actual occurances. Simple point - if Hitler really meant to wipe out the Church, then he could have simply rounded up all the Priests and Bishops and Seminarians one day and shot them, like the Soviets did, or like he did with recalcitrant Communists. He didn't because he wasn't out to wipe out the Church.
Its not important like it is made out today - the central event of world history. Certainly no more important than the massive slaughter of Germans, Poles, Russians, Hungarians, etc. during and after WWII.
5 million Russian died in Operation Keelhaul, when we deported them back to the love bursts of Uncle Joe's machine guns. Was that any less a crime? How about the 3 million Germans and 1 million Poles who died when forcibly expelled from their homelands in Silesia, Prussia, and Galacia? The 1 or 2 million Germans burnt alive in aerial bombardment of German cities?
I'm sure you can tell me how many Jews died in WWII. Can you tell me how many Americans? How many Russians? how many Germans? How many Italians?
No? Are Jewish lives worth remembering more than the lives of variosu sorts of Christian Europeans?
I wouldn't say vile but you certainly seem oddly and extremely bitter about something.
If you truly believe that American GI's invented wartime sexual immorality then two things we can conclude are that you are naive in the extreme and historically ignorant.
Yes, good point. WWII was just finishing the work of WWI.
That war,WW I,was to be the war to end all war. It was a culmination to the rallying cry of the French Revolutionists "down with the crown and the tiara"."End the tyranny of monarchs and popes"
Very true. In our own country we saw during this time the imposition of the income tax, the creation of the Federal Reserve paper money system, the creation of standing armies, and female suffrage.
After WW II,the enemy was sure they had won both crown and tiara.
And they weren't entirely wrong.
But by then the enemy had infiltrated the hierarchy,the evil doers in the hierarchy were stunned that the Church in America was actually healthy and growing attracting loads of converts and ordaining many priests.They knew that measures had to be taken in order to accomplish their mission,to turn the world over to the "godpeople" who would rule the peasants.
Very interesting analysis.
Vatican II offered them one more opurtunity to overthrow the Church. Men in high places managed to highjack and circumvent and convolute all matter of things and thus we find ourselves where we are today.
Yes, they were finishing the work they had started.
But believe me their intent was not to still be battlling with us.
All your points have been so interesting up to this point, I'd like to know more about what you think the "intent" was. When I see events like the recent Fatima Interfaith Conference, it makes me think that business as usual is right on schedule for those in control of the process.
Hermann, Hermann, Hermann!!
Something about the above statement bothers me a great deal.
I hope you can guess what it is.
Are you angry that the Allies stopped the Holocaust?
Yep. Houston, we have a problem.
How in the world were ghettoized Jews a "subversive element" in Germany?
Did we Mollycoddle the Japanese in the US and Latin America (yes, we went and rounded them up in Peru and Mexico and elsewhere too)?
We didn't kill them all, did we?
Hermann, do you have a problem with Jews?
Because we weren't and instead we are still battling I state with assurance that they have not yet won. What's more I think that they won't.Have you read the book by Msgr. Hugh Benson,entitled "Lord of the World",it's a chiller and a thriller and provides lots of food for thought.
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