OSAMA BEN LADEN WITHIN 35 DAYS! Highlights from Kim C 12 JAN 04 [FINALLY A GOOD TEST CASE]

[QUIX NOTE: The WOTerror impacts us all and there are many perspectives on it. The perspectives of various Pentecostal, Charismatic Christians ought to have their share of the conservative public square. After all, in the USA, we account for ~336 million plus See comments section. We are a potent force in behalf of George W Bush.

Kim Clement may be assailed as human in a variety of ways. Nevertheless, he predicted Saddam's capture well in advance. He predicted the economic upturn well in advance. I believe he was one of those who also predicted very well in advance that Saddam was seriously ill as recent reports of cancer confirm.

I post this for those are like-minded to pray in support of God working accordingly. Many people feel that some prophecies ought to be birthed into reality through agreeing prayer.

And, I post it, in part, because it is long overdue for 336 million USA CONSERVATIVE BELIEVERS to have some slight improvement in their perspective getting some fitting air time in a conservative public square.

TRUMPET WIND MINISTRIES PROPHETIC LIST Hosted by Pam Clark P. O. Box 21 ~ Millers Creek, NC 28651

NOTE FROM PAM: We had a quiet season a few weeks ago, and now there seems to be a spurt to post. It just happens that way sometimes. If it seems too much, just make a folder or delete them. I am just trying to send what I think will be valuable to you.

I really appreciate Bonnie Franklin for transcribing this, as I only got the last part of it watching TBN (Christian television - www.tbn.org) last night. Kim's gift has noticably increased in accuracy and I think the Lord will allow even more accuarate words as we mature in our Spiritual understanding on how prophecy is supposed to work (in a Body of Christ team effort).

If I could say anything else here quickly on prophetic development, I would exhort to make note of what you do "prophesy" and not take idly your "predictions." What might be experimental to you may be taken as the word of God for those who do not know how to "test the spirits" and the words yet. We need supportive accountability to get it right.

When you miss it, and most prophets do at times, own up to it and pray about it for the grace of God for all concerned. There is strong judgment for prophetic abuse in the Bible, especially if used for manipulations or self-glory. The prophetic is called to build the Body and help lay its foundation. Not every prophet's ministry is identical either. We don't use the wrong to make the right, even if God does provide through our mistakes. (Romans 8:28 and Calvary)

The more we get it right, the more we will like each other in the Body of Christ (because remember, the foundation is Love), and the more we will reflect the true glory of His Spirit - something that will startle the world one day! We, under God's instructions, are building a Temple of living stones that will house God; and it is still under construction, but it will be awesome! God can make a good prophet "miss it" if we get into idol worship over it. He is the final Judge.

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Highlights from ministry of Kim Clement on TBN 01/12/04 OSAMA BEN LADEN WITHIN 35 DAYS!

Talk about stepping out, in Utica, NY, for those of you who don't know anything about my ministry, the Lord has given me very, very clear words about political things that have come to pass, very clear. We've had the Secret Service visit me a number of times and investigate because of these prophecies. They are more interested and they have interpretations for this that I and the church didn't even think about.

…Osama Ben Laden said that in 35 days, America, he was prophesying, predicting, that this country would be abolished basically, wiped out, because he has a plan for 35 days. And the word of the Lord came to me... the spirit of the Lord said to me, “You prophesy that the very thing that he said and predicted for this nation, tell him, prophesy, that that is reversed, and I'm going to bring him out in 35 days!”

And then he said this – the Spirit of the Lord said, “There is a resurrection day coming over this Easter. This will be, the Easter that is coming now will be one of the greatest Easters this nation has ever celebrated. Why? Because there will be a resurrection of the dead, speaking spiritually of revelation that has died, of prophetic words that have died and been buried in the ground.” “This Easter,” says the Spirit of the Lord, “Not only will I bring your greatest enemy out, but I will also bring about a severe judgment against the powers and the principalities that have come against my servants, against my people. There shall be a judgment,” says the Lord.

Alzheimer’s has come against too many of God's people… The word of the Lord, the prophetic word of the Lord is coming to you tonight. Alzheimer's, diabetes, Parkinson’s disease, a rare bone disease and lung, God says, these five things will suddenly come to the surface with incredible discoveries and it will begin this year… God is going to bring it to pass because of your prayers... We declare it is done, in the Name of Jesus…

If you are believing with me right now for your family, I don't care whether it is some disease in their body or whether it is some deliverance that they need, whatever it is God's Spirit is present right now to free them from it. Yesterday is over. Are you with me? I declare the word of the Lord to everyone who is listening to me right now... I release creative truth on them right now. Whoever's listening, whoever's watching right now by television, Lord, I pray that you release them from that thing as well - the forces of death that want to take them out. It's time to live. It's time to enjoy the kingdom of God, therefore, live, live, live in the name of Christ.

There's an invasion into the Kingdoms of darkness... He's giving us access into the political powers. Look at President Bush; he prays. We needed a praying president, and we needed a praying president for another term, and there will be another praying president for another term… All over the world, God is sending his young people to invade the kingdoms of darkness and the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdom of our God and his Christ.

God says, “There have been prophetic words that have been spoken out that have been buried that have not come to pass,” and God says, “This generation that you think are dying, they are going to fall on the prophetic promises that have (been) buried and your children literally will be raised up as children that have life and children that will bring the word of the Lord,” in the name of Jesus we prophesy that.

… All of these things that have been prophesied, not just by me, but by many, many great men of God, and those that have even died that were in the 40's that prophesied and predicted the things that have not come to pass, it's for our generation. It's for our time, people - masses coming in, a great harvest…

When I came into the city (of Miami) I got so thirsty and I thought maybe because it's I've been flying... I was so thirsty. Even when I came in here I was so thirsty - unusually thirsty - and God said, "It's what's happening in Florida specifically. There's a tremendous thirst for something fresh and something new, and it's going through out America. The only way we're going to get big churches, if you want a big church, the only way it's going to happen is if there's a hunger in the hearts of people.

On March the 11th and the month of March has been set aside by God for the Church in the United States of America for something unbelievably wonderful to happen - so powerful… God just said to me, there's going to be one unusual event .. almost like a renting of something, a curtain, a veil for the church. So pastors and leaders... watch the month of March. It's going to be one of the most fabulous anointings that's going to be released, and what you've struggled to get... whatever it is, it's going to be released like that just in one second. It's payback time.

"Father, I pray for every man or woman, every person watching right now. You have the ability to change it by God's word. I release you from your present bondage. I command you to see what God is allowing you to see and I free you this very minute from the bondages that the enemy is bringing against you, so that you'll enter this year to your promise and into the Kingdom, in the Name of Jesus."

We encourage you to support Kim with your prayers and gifts of love. Intercessors, may you pray the prayer of agreement over the prophetic words he has spoken.

Lord, may we as a people, as your intercessors here in America come into agreement with what you have spoken from the mouth of your prophets. Lord God, we stand in agreement with them, praying the prayer of agreement that your will be done in our lives, in the life of this nation, and even in the lives of our enemies.

We thank you, God that even now you are stationing your angels of war to bring this to pass. We thank you, we thank you, we thank you for your angels whom are guarding over our land. We thank you for your protection, for hovering over your people. May your streams of healing flow once again like mighty rivers from your throne into our lives, into our hearts, into our homes, our churches, the very streets we walk upon. Come, Lord Jesus come. We invite you, Lord. We welcome your ministry and your ministering angels into our midst. Thank you, Father. May it be so.

In Him, Bonnie Franklin Prophetic Roundtable Ministries http://www.propheticroundtable.org

I have had similar impressions since Saddam's capture re Bin Laden. They were subtle enough I didn't know how much stock to put in them. But, my spirit leaps gently within me on reading this set of assertions by Kim Clement. I believe they will prove true.

As documented below, those of us inclined to believe as Kim Clement does comprise already or nearly so, the largest group of believers in Christianity.

We are not real thrilled being considered flakey nor tinfoil.

As I documented in my dissertation, as a group, Pentecostals, charismatics are not less intelligent, not less wealthy, not necessarily less high in socio-economic status etc. In fact, some evidence might point toward the opposite.

They report more sexual satisfaction, marriage satisfaction and better satisfaction with life in general.

Certainly there are flakes in any group. And, some might argue that Pentecostal/charismatic flakes are likely to be very overtly and demonstrably so.

Nevertheless, we had a big hand in electing George Bush the last time and are very likely to have a big hand in electing him the next time. Perhaps that's not enough to earn even fair-mindedness hereon--much less respect. But it ought to be.

I suspect we are a significant chunk of the donars to FR.

I don't ask for people to agree with me unless they feel the evidence warrants it. I do ask for fair minded consideration of the evidence.

And, it it won't crimp your style overmuch nor chase you too rapidly to the Exlax, perhaps you'd consider giving us and our positions--maybe even some of our beliefs at least a fair minded opportunity to be heard in the public square--especially on a conservative forum where we share so many of the politically conservative beliefs and goals.

The following offers stats and research on various demographic percentages.

Sincerely, Quix

Following from:

http://www.intervarsity.org/ism/news_item.php?news_id=447

Pentecostals/Charismatics/Neocharismatics which, in mid-2000 numbered nearly 524 million will increase to 554 million by mid-2003, but will escalate to well over 811 million by mid-2025, noted Barrett.

Following from:

http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v17n2/evangelical-demographics.htm

Depending on how the question is asked, some 25-45 percent of the population report that they see themselves as either Born-Again Christians, or, in the broadest sense of the word, Christian “Evangelicals.” What does this mean? Why is it important? How do these people influence elections and politics?

Footnote 1:

http://www.glenmary.org/grc/default.htm.

. . .

About 14 percent of the electorate in 2000 identified itself as part of the “Christian Right,” with 79 percent of this sector voting for George W. Bush.[2] But contrary to the impression fostered by the direct-mail rhetoric of many liberal groups, not all Evangelicals are part of the Christian Right, and some Evangelicals are actually politically liberal or progressive. Black Evangelicals, for example, overwhelmingly vote Democratic, but they are conservative on some social issues: tending to favor a social safety net for the poor and unemployed, but believing homosexuals are sinful.

Footnote 2:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/global/pf.cgi?/bc/2001/003/2.8.html.

There are three ways to look at Christian Evangelicals: as people of faith that follow a set of specific doctrines; as an organic network of traditions; or as a self-identified coalition that emerged during World War Two.[3] These doctrines, according to historian David Bebbington, are the belief in the need to change lives through conversion; expressing the message of the gospels through activism; a strong regard for the Bible as a guide for life; and stressing the importance of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.[4]

Footnote 3 [4 & 5 = ibid]:

http://www.wheaton.edu/isae/defining_evangelicalism.html.

According to the Institute for the Study of American Evangelicals (ISAE), when viewed as an organic network of traditions, evangelicalism “denotes a style as much as a set of beliefs. As a result, groups as disparate as black Baptists and Dutch Reformed Churches, Mennonites and Pentecostals, Catholic charismatics and Southern Baptists all come under the evangelical umbrella—demonstrating just how diverse the movement really is.”[5]

Footnote 5:

[See footnote 3 above--5 = ibid] The terms Fundamentalist, Born-Again, Pentecostal, and Charismatic denote specific and sometimes overlapping subsets of Christianity, and primarily are found within Protestant evangelicalism. To be Born-Again implies a specific personal religious conversion experience that involves a powerful sense of being imbued with the spirit of God. Fundamentalists tend to read the Bible literally, reject liberal church doctrine, and often shun secular society. Pentecostals and Charismatics believe they routinely manifest gifts from the Holy Spirit such as speaking in tongues or being swept up into physical ecstasy by the Lord of the Dance.

In the broadest sense, according to Gallup polls, the number of persons in the United States who described themselves as either Evangelical or Born-Again between 1976 and 2001 fluctuated between 33 percent and 47 percent with a reasonable estimate being 35 percent of the population or just over 102 million people in 2003.[6] There seems to be a small long-term increase in the number of people reporting themselves in this category with 34 percent in election year 1976 and 45 percent in election year 2000. Using a different methodology and set of definitions, Barna Research has found that 41 percent of the population identifies as Born-Again using a broad definition, but only 8 percent accept all the tenets in a list of strict conservative doctrinal beliefs.[7]

Footnote 6:

http://www.wheaton.edu/isae/Gallup-Bar-graph.html.

Footnote 7:

http://www.barna.org/cgi-bin/PagePressRelease.asp?PressReleaseID=92&Reference=B

Significantly, Christians, including Evangelicals, do not vote as a bloc, even within specific denominations. In the year 2000, when 45 percent of the population told the Gallup poll they were Evangelical or Born-Again, 84 percent of White Evangelical Protestants who voted cast ballots for Bush and 16 percent for Gore. One study found that 40 percent of the total vote for Bush in 2000 came from Christian Evangelicals, making it the largest single voting bloc in the Republican Party. However, Black Protestant voters, a majority of whom are Evangelical, voted 96 percent for Gore and only 4 percent for Bush. Contrast this with Jewish voters who voted 77 percent for Gore and 23 percent for Bush; and Roman Catholic voters who voted 57 percent for Bush and 43 percent for Gore.[8]

Footnote 8:

http://www.beliefnet.com/politics/data/2000_religious_groups1.html

When all Evangelicals were polled regarding their Party and voting preferences, some of the results were surprising. Not surprising is that almost half of all Evangelicals are Republicans, while only one-quarter are Democrats. Yet, the single biggest bloc (among all Evangelicals) in 2000 was non-voters at 52 percent, followed by Bush voters at 37 percent and Gore voters at 11 percent. Even among Republican partisans (comprising 47 percent of all Evangelicals), while 77 percent voted for Bush, 33 percent chose not to vote; making non-voters the second biggest voting bloc in the Christian Right. Independent Evangelicals gave 19 percent and 18 percent of their votes to Bush and Gore respectively, but the biggest bloc for Evangelical Independents was also non-voters at 41 percent.[9] Many Evangelicals are “swing voters” oscillating between the Republican and Democratic Party; and many more simply feel neither Party represents their interests.

Footnote 9 (& 10 = ibid):

Kellstedt et al., op. cit.

While on average older Evangelicals tend to lag slightly behind the average U.S. resident in education and income, there is a “continuing trend toward the GOP, as younger, better-educated, and wealthier Evangelicals replace an older, less upscale Democratic political generation.”[10] Evangelicals who are politically or socially active, especially conservatives, seem to be increasingly upwardly mobile, suburban, highly-educated, and with above-average incomes, contrary to many popular stereotypes.[11] One group of scholars found that between 1978 and 1988, “Christian Right activism occurred predominantly in rapidly growing—and relatively prosperous—suburban areas of the South, Southwest, and Midwest.”[12] Conservative Evangelicals also do a better job at rallying their own forces to vote. In 2000, 79 percent of Evangelicals who voted for Bush had been contacted at least once by a politicized religious group or individual, as compared to 36 percent of Gore voters. [13]

Footnote 10:

Kellstedt et al., op. cit.

Footnote 11:

Smith, Christian, with Sally Gallagher, Michael Emerson, Paul Kennedy, and David Sikkink.1998. American Evangelicalism: Embattled and Thriving. Chicago: University of Chicago Press; Smith, Christian. 2000. Christian America? What Evangelicals Really Want. Berkeley: University of California Press.

Footnote 12:

Green, John C., James L Guth, and Kevin Hill. 1993. “Faith and Election: The Christian Right in Congressional Campaigns 1978-1988.” The Journal of Politics. Vol. 55, no. 1 (February). Pp. 80-91.

Kellstedt et al., op. cit.

Many in the Christian Right tend to get their information—and thus their political worldview—not from major corporate media, but from alternative media produced within the large Christian Right subculture.[14] The most exclusionary and antidemocratic members of the Christian Right are often members of Christian political action groups such as Concerned Women for America.[15] These are groups that regularly spread alarmist and frequently inaccurate claims about liberals, radicals, gays, and feminists. The more frequently a self-identified Evangelical/Born-Again person attends church functions, and the more conservative the theological doctrine and social beliefs they follow, the more likely they are to vote Republican.[16] This especially stands out on the issue of abortion, with 73 percent of Evangelical Bush voters responding that abortion should be illegal in all cases, compared to only 23 percent of Evangelical Gore voters.[17]

Footnote 14 (15 = ibid):

Smidt, Corwin E., Lyman Kellstedt, John Green, and James Guth. 1994. “The Characteristics of Christian Political Activists: An Interest Group Analysis.” In Christian Political Activism at the Crossroads, edited by William R. Stevenson. Lanham, MD: University Press of America.

Footnote 15: See 14 above = ibid

Footnote 16:

http://www.beliefnet.com/politics/data/2000_stats.html;

Footnote 17:

BeliefNet. 2000. “2000 Exit Poll Results.”

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The following from:

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:YFP0b7aqRkMJ:www.k-vekst.no/download/GLOBAL%2520GLIMPSE%2520ON%2520STATS.doc+Pentecostals+Charismatics+USA+percent+population&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

GLOBAL CHURCH BECOMES MORE CHARISMATIC. Date: Sun, 6 Aug, 2000 In 1900, some 900,000 people were considered members of Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. This number grew to 72 million in 1970, which was around 6.4% of all Christians. In the year 2000, the number has grown to 523.7 million, or 27.7% of all Christians. David Barrett estimates that if the growth continues, their number will reach 811.5 million in 2025, at which point they will constitute 32.5% of all Christians. The largest contributions to the figures are from Latin America (141.43 million), Asia (134.9 million) and Africa (126 million). Europe has 37.6 million Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians.

Source: World Christian Encyclopedia, Second Edition, Oxford, 2000

G. EXPLOSION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 The Dictionary of Christianity in America claims that Pentecostalism may well be the single most significant development in 20th century Christianity. Life magazine in its recent ranking of the 100 most important events of this millennium put the rise of Pentecostalism as number 68. Pentecostals and Charismatics are the fastest growing segment of the church around the world 13 million a year or 35,000 a day. Source: Christian History, Is. 58, 1998,Pgs. 2-3, [Taken from Current Thoughts and Trends, July, 1998, 800-288-2028]

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The following is from:

http://hirr.hartsem.edu/research/research_pentecostalism_palomaart1.html

Results of surveys place the size of the Pentecostal population in America from 5% to 12%, depending on the measurement used. According to Smidt, Green, Kellstedt and Guth (1996), 3.6% of the adult population belongs to a classic Pentecostal church. When non-denominational charismatics are added, the figure increases to 5%. Smidt, et al. (1996:223) have made an interesting observation about this seeming small figure, noting that "the only Protestant denominational families to exceed this size are Baptists, Methodists, and Lutherans, with Lutherans only a fraction larger." The Pentecostal movement, however, is not a simply a new denomination but, as we shall see, an example of a restructuring of Christianity. In order to access less obvious facets of the movement, the researchers asked two other questions which yielded higher figures. When respondents were asked whether they spoke in tongues, a classic litmus test for Pentecostal "spirit baptism," the figure rose to 8.7%. When queried about identification with the spirit-filled movement, including charismatic groups that tend to place less doctrinal emphasis on glossolalia than older Pentecostal denominations, 4.7% claim to be "Pentecostal", 6.6% identify as "Charismatic", while 0.8% claim both Pentecostal and Charismatic identification, for a total representing 12% of the U.S.A.

According to Johns, the following characteristics, taken together as a "gestallt," are what constitute the "uniquely Pentecostal world-view":

First, the Pentecostal world-view is experientially God-centered. All things relate to God and God relates to all things.

Second, the Pentecostal world-view is holistic and systemic. For the Spirit-filled person God is not only present in all events, he holds all things together and causes all things to work together.

Third, the Pentecostal world-view is transrational. Knowledge is relational and is not limited to the realms of reason and sensory experience.

Fourth, in conjunction with their holiness heritage, Pentecostals are concerned with truth, but not just propositional truth. Pentecostals were historically anti-creedal.

Fifth, the Pentecostal epistemology of encounter with God is closely aligned with the biblical understanding of how one comes to know. . . This understanding is rooted in Hebrew thought and may be contrasted with Greek approaches to knowledge. The Hebrew word for ‘to know’ is yada.. In general, yada is knowledge that comes by experience.

Finally, the Scriptures hold a special place and function within the Pentecostal world-view. Pentecostals differ from Evangelicals and Fundamentalists in approach to the Bible. For Pentecostals the Bible is a living book in which the Holy Spirit is always active.

According to the Pentecostal world-view, the Word of the Scriptures and the Spirit of the living God are in diological relationship, playing incessantly within and among individuals as well as within the larger world. It is a world of miracles and mystery, where healings, prophecy and divine serendipity are woven into the fabric of everyday life. The Greek dualism that divides the world into natural and supernatural tends to lose its hold on even Western Pentecostals. Although Johns’ description of the Pentecostal world-view is applicable to followers in both western and non-western cultures, it is subject to more of a plausibility crisis in the West than in developing nations.

The forces of modernism, materialism and instrumental rationality that are foundational for Western thought are a constant challenge to the Pentecostal world-view. Although at times it may seem embattled, renewals and revivals over the past century have brought a steady stream of newcomers into the Pentecostal fold and revitalized the beliefs of many cradle adherents.. The paradigm that has become normative for believers has been described by Pentecostal scholar Grant Wacker (1986:537) as "supernaturalism wed to pragmatism," of which he says:

It reveals a very other-worldly supernaturalism and a very this-worldly pragmatism still locked in a curiously compatible marriage that has lasted longer than anyone can quite remember. Admittedly over the years both partners have changed. The supernaturalism has become less stark, and the pragmatism has grown more resourceful, now embracing state-of-the-art technology along with the prayer of faith. But the essential structure of the relationship, the essential paradox, remains intact.

An illustration of the peculiar adaptation of supernaturalism and pragmatism found in Pentecostalism can be made through a brief discussion of the significance of speaking in tongues for Pentecostal world mission. Both glossolalia and an urgency for evangelism were prominent features of early Pentecostalism, and both have experienced institutional forces reshaping them through Pentecostalism’s nearly 100-year history. Although meaning and practice have shifted, glossolalia and missionary outreach provide a window into better understanding the Pentecostal world-view and its attraction in the global marketplace.

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