[Havoc]

Havoc doesn't discount water baptism, he just sees it as Christ sees it. It's like circumcision, an outward sign, not an inward one. Christ commanded that we be baptised; but, with fire - in the holy spirit as it were. That was and is Christ's baptism. John's baptism was and is the baptism of the old covenant - in water. This baptism is still practiced by the Israelites under judaism. You are hungup on the same carnal issues one would expect you to be hungup on. The thief on the cross wasn't baptised in water. Why? Simple, he didn't need to be. God looked at the inward man and knew Him. It is men who want outward signs, God wants inward repentance and obedience. We are not of John's baptism as Christians. We are of Christ's.
We are not of the physical circumcision; but, of the spiritual. Carnal minds and unbelievers do not or will not get this.

[dangus]

Now you're referring to yourself in third person? "Smeagol likes hobbitses!" |^D!

You should know that the Catholic Church has ALWAYS maintained that "a sacrament of desire" occurs when someone desires a sacrament, but it is impossible to receive it. So, yes, the theif on the cross was baptized.

But EVEN baptism in the spirit was done with a laying on of hands. The outward signs are necessary to demonstrate and manifest the will. If a person rejects the outward sign, that it is certain that he has rejected the body of Christ.