[johnb2004]

It becomes murkier what constitutes "the Church".

Nothing murky about it. Christ left a visible Church with marks to identify it. It comes down to accepting His church or rejecting it.

[HarleyD]

If I'm not mistaken Catholics believe Peter established their church. Yet we know from I Corinthians 1:12-13, Paul addresses this issue, "Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, 'I am of Paul,' and 'I of Apollos,' and 'I of Cephas,' and 'I of Christ.' Has Christ been divided?..." We see from this passage different "denominations" were already beginning to spread. Notice that Cephas (Peter) was just one of them.

[Questioneer]

>>Nothing murky about it. Christ left a visible Church with marks to identify it. It comes down to accepting His church or rejecting it. <<

Hmmm...how about a definition of the word "church"? Just what do you mean by using that word in the context of "The church says...", "The church teaches..."?

Just curious, but serious.