Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Revelation 911
***I get the notion that there is a pre-disposition of my soul - which brings me back to the aborted unelect baby scenario - and I think this is where my brothers and sisters get hung up as well ***

BTW, we have had 6 miscarriages and so the issue isn't academic in our household. As stetd before on FR, I leave the destiny of infants in God's hands. David's statement about his son who died in infancy points to an expectation that he would see his son in heaven. How to extrapolate that verse is debatable, IMO. Instead, I am resolved to lay that decision in God's "In Box" without a definitive answer.

***- It sounds arminian until verse 39, where I get the impression God has determined election - am I reading it right? - and from this - I'm led to think the truth lies somewhere in between***

GIVE-DRAW-COME/BELIEVE-RAISE UP

These are the verbs and the sequence. Pretty darn Calvinistic, I'd say. BTW, verse 37 ought to wrinkle Arminian brows as well. ALL GIVEN to Him WILL COME, not MIGHT COME or SHOULD COME.

Come over to the "Dark Side" and be enlightened.

- the Compassionate Calvinist
74 posted on 12/02/2003 5:50:52 AM PST by drstevej (There is no Free Will in Heaven)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies ]


To: drstevej; xzins; P-Marlowe; connectthedots; RnMomof7; CCWoody; Dr. Eckleburg
BTW, we have had 6 miscarriages and so the issue isn't academic in our household.

my condolences - my reference was made not knowing your situation. We have had one.

Im still looking at John 6 - because there seems to be two things going on - and in some regard - Matthew Henrys commentary does the same thing.

Verses 1-14 John relates the miracle of feeding the multitude, for its reference to the following discourse. Observe the effect this miracle had upon the people. Even the common Jews expected the Messiah to come into the world, and to be a great Prophet. The Pharisees despised them as not knowing the law; but they knew most of Him who is the end of the law. Yet men may acknowledge Christ as that Prophet, and still turn a deaf ear to him. - (yet ive been told by woody sometime ago that I could be saved despite my arminianism)

Verses 15-21 Here were Christ's disciples in the way of duty, and Christ was praying for them; yet they were in distress. There may be perils and afflictions of this present time, where there is an interest in Christ. Clouds and darkness often surround the children of the light and of the day. They see Jesus walking on the sea. Even the approaches of comfort and deliverance often are so mistaken, as to become the occasions of fear. Nothing is more powerful to convince sinners than that word, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest;" nothing more powerful to comfort saints than this, "I am Jesus whom thou lovest." If we have received Christ Jesus the Lord, though the night be dark, and the wind high, yet we may comfort ourselves, we shall be at the shore before long.

Verses 22-27 Instead of answering the inquiry how he came there, Jesus blamed their asking. The utmost earnestness should be employed in seeking salvation, in the use of appointed means; yet it is to be sought only as the gift of the Son of man. Him the Father has sealed, proved to be God. He declared the Son of man to be the Son of God with power.

Verses 28-35 Constant exercise of faith in Christ (almost sounds like a holiness preacher here)., is the most important and difficult part of the obedience required from us, as sinners seeking salvation. When by his grace we are enabled to live a life of faith in the Son of God, holy tempers follow, and acceptable services may be done. - (There's the dicotomy & my confusion - I know its all by Gods grace - but I keep hearing these references to choice) God, even his Father, who gave their fathers that food from heaven to support their natural lives, now gave them the true Bread for the salvation of their souls. Coming to Jesus (to regurgitate the barb - "Wasn't Jesus lucky you did"), and believing on him, signify the same. Christ shows that he is the true Bread; he is to the soul what bread is to the body, nourishes and supports the spiritual life. He is the Bread of God. Bread which the Father gives, which he has made to be the food of our souls. Bread nourishes only by the powers of a living body; but Christ is himself living Bread, and nourishes by his own power. The doctrine of Christ crucified is now as strengthening and comforting to a believer as ever it was. He is the Bread which came down from heaven. It denotes the Divinity of Christ's person and his authority; also, the Divine origin of all the good which flows to us through him. May we with understanding and earnestness say, Lord, evermore give us this Bread.

Verses 36-46 The discovery of their guilt, danger, and remedy, by the teaching of the Holy Spirit, makes men willing and glad to come, and to give up every thing which hinders applying to him for salvation. The Father's will is, that not one of those who were given (again, the docotomy) to the Son, should be rejected or lost by him. No one will come, till Divine grace has subdued, and in part changed his heart; therefore no one who comes will ever be cast out. The gospel finds none willing to be saved in the humbling, holy manner, made known therein; but God draws with his word and the Holy Ghost; and man's duty is to hear and learn; that is to say, to receive(note the "act") the grace offered, and consent to the promise. None had seen the Father but his beloved Son; and the Jews must expect to be taught by his inward power upon their minds, and by his word, and the ministers whom he sent among them.

I dont mean to hang the whole argument on this passage or Henrys commentary of it - I do think though - it raises a valid question that I've yet to hear addressed

On one hand we see the "elect" references - on others we see a "choice" - As one who has had the scales removed from his eyes - help this blinded arminian digest what I am reading -

In the least - pray for my discernment

193 posted on 12/03/2003 3:48:23 AM PST by Revelation 911 (Why does Fr Resty have dyslexia and the Fair Resty not ?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies ]

To: drstevej; Revelation 911
BTW, we have had 6 miscarriages and so the issue isn't academic in our household. As stated before on FR, I leave the destiny of infants in God's hands. David's statement about his son who died in infancy points to an expectation that he would see his son in heaven. How to extrapolate that verse is debatable, IMO. Instead, I am resolved to lay that decision in God's "In Box" without a definitive answer.

Without disputing the fact that the ultimate destiny of those who die in Infancy is solely the prerogative of God's Decisioning alone, I think that there is an even better reference than that of David's son in infancy.

Let us attend to the reading of God's Word, Ezekiel 16: 20-22 --

This is no small matter.

Remember that God never, anywhere in Scripture, refers to the Reprobate as "His Children". Indeed, Jesus Christ Himself specifically states that those whom God has sovereignly Chosen to Reprobate, He regards as Children of the Devil.

And yet here we have those whom have been slaughtered in Infancy, being named by God Himself as "My Children."

This dovetails perfectly with John Calvin's teaching that those who die in Infancy, though guilty of Original Sin, are gratuitously saved by a special and Irresistible operation of Grace; whereas the Reprobate procure their own damnation.

Of course, it is not unusual for the teaching of Scripture to dovetail perfectly with that of Calvinism... for an appropriate nick-name for the teaching of Scripture is simply this: "Calvinism".

194 posted on 12/03/2003 4:11:17 AM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson