And you have only been able to quote Scripture according to your own church's interpretation and then claim it means only what YOU say -oh wait!-, that's right, you never quoted any Scripture -you just rehashed what a bunch of people told you to believe. That's not a very Berean attitude (Acts 17:11).
"And I bet you guys have the audacity to give the Roman Catholics grief for them claiming the Pope is infallible in his interpretation of Scripture."
I guess that might be a valid criticism if I claimed that my understanding of Scripture was infallible.
"At least they only claim to only have one of them! There are millions of Protestants proclaiming the infallible faith of YOPIS!"
The problem is that Reformed theology does not accept "Your Own Personal Interpretation of Scripture". As I have already shown in Post #264, we believe that the correct understanding of Scripture is given by the Holy Spirit. This might help you in understanding the near unanimous agreement of Doctrine in confessing Reformed churches.
The Continental Reformed Churches (Dutch, German, Swiss) happen to subscribe to the "Three Forms of Unity" (Belgic Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, Canons of Dordt) while the confessing Presbyterians subscribe to the Westminster Standards. Quite frankly, give me the Westminster Standards or the Three Forms of Unity -it doesn't make a bit of difference. That is as true today as it was 400 years ago. So, in reality, your desperate "millions of Protestants" argument does not work with respect to reformational churches.
On the other hand, while it is amusing to see you pull out the "YOPIS" defense (I knew that would be your last resort and it's no wonder that you don't care to follow a logical argument as YOPIS defense is both a "straw-man" and a "red-herring" at the same time.), there is far more unity among the clergy and laymen in confessing Reformed Churches than there are in Roman Catholic Churches. I find total ignorance (and I mean total) to be the status quo among most every single "Catholic" I know. The knowledgable Catholics that one finds here on FR are in the vast minority.
In contrast, the knowledge you see in the Calvinists here on FR is quite typical of the individuals in confessing Reformed churches and always has been. (We are not known for "Christmas and Easter only" church attendence like so many many of my Catholic friends are. Church twice a Sunday is the norm with nearly full attendence at both services.)
But while you are at it, perhaps you could give me the rational, as you understand it, behind the insistance that ONLY the church is authorized to Interpret the Scriptures? -in other words -where did you ever get that idea?
Jean
But FL and I would say our understanding with the Church of Scripture is infallible. Its impossible the Church should err in this. If we join ourselves to the mind of the Church always, we can't go wrong. Error starts when we start thinking we know better than the Church.
So is there a lot of unity between the Homoloving PCA and the Orthodox Presbyterians? Aren't you both reformed? ;-)
That unity in the sects tends to be the case when everyone feels free to leave and start their own Church over the slightest difference in opinion. We are talking about the difference between a few million Calvinists, and 1.1 billion Catholics plus 300 million Orthodox. If you reduced us to the very knowledgeable core of perhaps 10%, you'd see the same unity on everything you are so impressed with in Calvinism.
Personally, I am much more impressed with the dedication of the ignorant laity to be faithful Catholics. I am more impressed by the dedication of homeless bums to come and worship their Lord at Mass (some daily!) than the intellectual exercise of Calvinism among the braintrust.
I find total ignorance (and I mean total) to be the status quo among most every single "Catholic" I know. The knowledgable Catholics that one finds here on FR are in the vast minority.
Yes, but they all know what they should do - worship Him as God, stay Catholic, love the brotherhood, confess their sins, and go to Mass. Christ didn't call everyone to be a learned scholar. He did call us to love each other and our neighbors, to confes our sins, and to worship Him in the Eucharist. Every Catholic knows to do these basic things to get to heaven. Their ignorance of the fine points of grace vs. free will, or the Trinitarian Perichoresis, or the powers and duties of the ecclesiastical heirarchy is not relevant. Its important that the Church teaches those things correctly, but it is not important that the laity know it all by heart and rote.
Please keep in mind that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox are "the whole people". Everyone from the PhD's like a friend of mine on Wall St. on down to the homeless drug using high-school drop out ex-con bum with AIDS I met last year who was just trying to get money to get home to his mom after getting off the bus from the State prison. You can't expect everyone to be learned in everything, and I'm sure the bum didn't know all the PhD knows. You can expect them to participate in the life of the Church and to love, and that the bum did. When the whole of a country is in the Church, as with Greece or Italy or Spain or Ireland, etc. you are bound to find an abundance of ignorance. Please keep in mind, by definition, half the people are of below average intelligence and knowledge, and many are illiterate. Christ died for them too, and he never threatened "unless a man read the Bible, he cannot see the Kingdom of God".
Because when I am in a discussion with other Christians, I assure that they know their Scripture. Assuming otherwise is simply the height of arrogance and displays an attitude which does not fit the Christian faith.
...you just rehashed what a bunch of people told you to believe.
Sorry that our interpretation of Scripture remains constant, is not moved by the fickle winds of the modern day, or is subject to myriad reinterpretations on a nearly daily basis.
After all, we are the Church that compiled the New Testament. And now you come along and suggest that we know nothing about it.
Arrogance, pure and simple.