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To: Hermann the Cherusker; dangus
Gosh, John specifically tells us that the “Great City” (Revelation 18:10) IS Jerusalem (Revelation 11:8). ~~ Does Jerusalem sit on seven hills (Revelation 17.9)? No! Rome does (Aventinus, Caelius, Esquilinus, Viminalis, Quirinalis, Pincius, Palatinus), and it was such a famous characteristic that Constantinople New Rome was purposefulyl founded on a site with seven hills. "The seven heads are seven mountains upon which the woman sits" (Revelation 17.9). The focus is all upon the woman, not the beast, sitting on the seven hills.

Tsk, tsk, Hermann – merely repeating yourself won’t serve to answer the point that I have made. Let’s deal with this one specifically before I respond to the rest of your post.

As I already pointed out to you, we are not discussing a literal prostitute, a literal beast, or a literal sitting. The whore is described as sitting upon the Beast (Rev. 17:3) and sitting upon the Seven Hills (Rev 17:9), therefore the Beast and the Seven Hills are the same entity – Rome, upon whom the Whore is seated.

The whore Babylon, who is the “Great City” (Revelation 18:10) whom John tells us specifically is Jerusalem (Rev. 11:8), is “sitting upon” (that is, foundationalizing herself upon) the Beast of Seven Hills (Rome, Rev. 17:3,9), having declared "We have no king but Caesar". The Beast of the Seven Hills, whose number is 666 (Nero Caesar, the numerical value in Hebrew, Rev. 13:18), who will come to despise the Whore and ruin her (Revelation 17:16).

As long as you remember that John told us specifically in Revelation 11:8 that the Great City is Jerusalem, this stuff really isn’t that hard to figure out.

252 posted on 11/25/2003 11:38:30 AM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
A metametaphor?

The whore Babylon alludes to Rome, but is Jerusalem? And I must repeat, my bible says nothing about specifically referring to Jerusalem. The verse you cite says the city is Egypt and Sodom, providing further metaphorical comparisons. Unless taken as a metametametaphor.
253 posted on 11/25/2003 11:48:33 AM PST by dangus
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
As I already pointed out to you, we are not discussing a literal prostitute, a literal beast, or a literal sitting. The whore is described as sitting upon the Beast (Rev. 17:3) and sitting upon the Seven Hills (Rev 17:9), therefore the Beast and the Seven Hills are the same entity – Rome, upon whom the Whore is seated.

The beast is not the seven hills. The beast is Nero. "Five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come: and when he is come, he must remain a short time. And the beast which was and is not: the same also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into destruction." (Revelation 17.10-11) This is widely ageed to be a clear reference to the Roman Emperors. Thus the reference to the worship of the Divine Emperors: "And all that dwell upon the earth adored him" (Revelation 13.8). The Romans adored the Emperor, not Rome the City or State.

The whore Babylon, who is the “Great City” (Revelation 18:10) whom John tells us specifically is Jerusalem (Rev. 11:8),

This is a false equivalence and total baloney. "And the woman which thou sawest is the great city which hath kingdom over the kings of the earth." (Revelation 17.18) Rome had kingdom over the kings of the earth, not Jerusalem. Rome is the great city referred to here. Thus, Rome is mystical Babylon.

"Because all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication: and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her; And the merchants of the earth have been made rich by the power of her delicacies." (Revelation 18.3) - Jerusalem was not a major city and not a place of great merchandising.

"And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived in delicacies with her, shall weep and bewail themselves over her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning:" (Revelation 18.9) - no kings wept for the burning of Jerusalem.

"And saying: Alas! alas! that great city, which was clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet and was gilt with gold and precious stones and pearls." (Revelation 18.16) - a description of imperial majesty.

"And they cast dust upon their heads and cried, weeping and mourning, saying: Alas! alas! that great city, wherein all were made rich, that had ships at sea, by reason of her prices. For, in one hour she is made desolate." (Revelation 18.19) - Jerusalem had no ships, and made no one rich.

is “sitting upon” (that is, foundationalizing herself upon) the Beast of Seven Hills (Rome, Rev. 17:3,9), having declared "We have no king but Caesar". The Beast of the Seven Hills, whose number is 666 (Nero Caesar, the numerical value in Hebrew, Rev. 13:18),

You've got too many personalities for this to work, since you are identifying both Rome and the Caesars as the Beast. The personality of the beast is clear.

who will come to despise the Whore and ruin her (Revelation 17:16).

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom: but shall receive power as kings, one hour after the beast. ... And the ten horns which thou sawest in the beast: These shall hate the harlot and shall make her desolate and naked and shall eat her flesh and shall burn her with fire." (Revelation 17.12, 16)

Continuing, since the Harlot is Rome, why not interpret the ten kings as the ten German tribes which invaded and destroyed Rome - say the Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Seuvi, Burgundians, Franks, Saxons, Lombards, Allemanians, and Bavarians.

I will grant that there is something to be said for a secondary interpretation of some of these prophecies for Jerusalem, but I think the primary meaning is with Rome.

256 posted on 11/25/2003 12:21:21 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
that is, foundationalizing herself upon

Ugh. Founding.

SD

257 posted on 11/25/2003 12:22:23 PM PST by SoothingDave
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