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To: RnMomof7
Some may say, "well, this list only shows what churches these men were members of, it doesn't show what they believed." Which is a veiled way of suggesting that these men were liars when they swore to God to adopt the confessions of their churches

Exactly. Most men of quality at the time professed Christianity because they felt it was a good way to control the behavior of the masses that they never dreamed would get the vote. They certainly were too well educated in the Enlightenment to believe it.

They were largely of a mind with Voltaire, a man none would seriously claim was a christian, yet he kept a priest on the payroll at his estates, had him at table, attended mass regularly and was buried in hallowed ground.

It was Noblesse Oblige applied to the Noble of Mind rather than the Noble by Birth.

So9

114 posted on 11/17/2003 3:17:40 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (A Goldwater Republican)
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To: Servant of the 9; OrthodoxPresbyterian
Exactly. Most men of quality at the time professed Christianity because they felt it was a good way to control the behavior of the masses that they never dreamed would get the vote. They certainly were too well educated in the Enlightenment to believe it.
> They were largely of a mind with Voltaire, a man none would seriously claim was a christian, yet he kept a priest on the payroll at his estates, had him at table, attended mass regularly and was buried in hallowed ground.
It was Noblesse Oblige applied to the Noble of Mind rather than the Noble by Birth.

So then all the framers were liars and cheats?

Because your idol was a liar..does not translate to 100% of the framers being liars..

When we come to study the influence of Calvinism as a political force in the history of the United States we come to one of the brightest pages of all Calvinistic history. Calvinism came to America in the Mayflower, and Bancroft, the greatest of American historians, pronounces the Pilgrim Fathers "Calvinists in their faith according to the straightest system." John Endicott, the first governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony; John Winthrop, the second governor of that Colony; Thomas Hooker, the founder of Connecticut; John Davenport, the founder of the New Haven Colony; and Roger Williams, the founder of the Rhode Island Colony, were all Calvinists. William Penn was a disciple of the Huguenots. It is estimated that of the 3,000,000 Americans at the time of the American Revolution, 900,000 were of Scotch or Scotch-Irish origin, 600,000 were Puritan English, and 400,000 were German or Dutch Reformed. In addition to this the Episcopalians had a Calvinistic confession in their Thirty-nine Articles; and many French Huguenots also had come to this western world. Thus we see that about two-thirds of the colonial population had been trained in the school of Calvin. Never in the world's history had a nation been founded by such people as these.

With this background we shall not be surprised to find that the Presbyterians took a very prominent part in the American Revolution. Our own historian Bancroft says: "The Revolution of 1776, so far as it was affected by religion, was a Presbyterian measure. It was the natural outgrowth of the principles which the Presbyterianism of the Old World planted in her sons, the English Puritans, the Scotch Covenanters, the French Huguenots, the Dutch Calvinists, and the Presbyterians of Ulster." So intense, universal, and aggressive were the Presbyterians in their zeal for liberty that the war was spoken of in England as "The Presbyterian Rebellion." An ardent colonial supporter of King George III wrote home: "I fix all the blame for these extraordinary proceedings upon the Presbyterians. They have been the chief and principal instruments in all these flaming measures. They always do and ever will act against government from that restless and turbulent anti-monarchial spirit which has always distinguished them everywhere." When the news of "these extraordinary proceedings" reached England, Prime Minister Horace Walpole said in Parliament, "Cousin America has run off with a Presbyterian parson" (John Witherspoon, president of {Calvinist Presbyterian} Princeton, signer of Declaration of Independence).

History is eloquent in declaring that American democracy was born of Christianity and that that Christianity was Calvinism. The great Revolutionary conflict which resulted in the formation of the American nation, was carried out mainly by Calvinists, many of whom had been trained in the rigidly Presbyterian College at Princeton, and this nation is their gift to all liberty loving people.

J. R. Sizoo tells us: "When Cornwallis was driven back to ultimate retreat and surrender at Yorktown, all of the colonels of the Colonial Army but one were Presbyterian elders. More than one-half of all the soldiers and officers of the American Army during the Revolution were Presbyterians."

The testimony of Emilio Castelar, the famous Spanish statesman, orator and scholar, is interesting and valuable. Castelar had been professor of Philosophy in the University of Madrid before he entered politics, and he was made president of the republic which was set up by the Liberals in 1873. As a Roman Catholic he hated Calvin and Calvinism. Says he: "It was necessary for the republican movement that there should come a morality more austere than Luther's, the morality of Calvin, and a Church more democratic than the German, the Church of Geneva. The Anglo-Saxon democracy has for its lineage a book of a primitive society — the Bible. It is the product of a severe theology learned by the few Christian fugitives in the gloomy cities of Holland and Switzerland, where the morose shade of Calvin still wanders . . . And it remains serenely in its grandeur, forming the most dignified, most moral and most enlightened portion of the human race."

All this has been thoroughly understood and candidly acknowledged by such penetrating and philosophic historians as Bancroft, who far though he was from being Calvinistic in his own personal convictions, simply calls Calvin "the father of America," and adds: "He who will not honor the memory and respect the influence of Calvin knows but little of the origin of American liberty." ~~ Boettner, "Calvinism in History"

125 posted on 11/17/2003 3:47:08 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Servant of the 9
They were largely of a mind with Voltaire, a man none would seriously claim was a christian, yet he kept a priest on the payroll at his estates, had him at table, attended mass regularly and was buried in hallowed ground.

BTW He was a Catholic..a salvation by works guy..he probably thought he could live like hell and get into heaven on the basis of a few prayers and a mass

Thank God the framers believed in a sovereign God

127 posted on 11/17/2003 3:53:04 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Servant of the 9
And your primary sources for these statements are?
Any perusal of the speeches and writings of most of these men would show that their beliefs were contrary to our modern definition, at least, of deism. Even Franklin, who identified himself as a deist, either did not hold to our understanding of the term, or changed from it over time.
I have found that most of the souce material for such comments comes from lectures in the university, which are not generally footnoted well, as they can't be.
If you can provide me with primary source material concerning this, I would be delighted,
thank you
217 posted on 11/17/2003 10:52:01 PM PST by Apogee (vade in pace)
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