Posted on 11/03/2003 9:42:20 PM PST by RnMomof7
Where is this one true Church? What is this one true Church like? What are the marks by which this one true Church may be known? You may well ask such questions. Give me your attention, and I will provide you with some answers.
1. The one true Church IS COMPOSED OF ALL BELIEVERS IN THE LORD JESUS. It is made up of all God's elect - of all converted men and women - of all true Christians. In whomsoever we can discern the election of God the Father, the sprinkling of the blood of God the Son, the sanctifying work of God the Spirit, in that person we see a member of Christ's true Church.
2. It is a Church OF WHICH ALL THE MEMBERS HAVE THE SAME MARKS. They are all born again of the Spirit; they all possess "repentance towards God, faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ," and holiness of life and conversation. They all hate sin, and they all love Christ. (They worship differently, and after various fashions; some worship with a form of prayer, and some with none; some worship kneeling, and some standing; but they all worship with one heart.) They are all led by one Spirit; they all build upon one foundation; they all draw their religion from one single book - that is the Bible. They are all joined to one great center - that is Jesus Christ. They all even now can say with one heart, "Hallelujah;" and they can all respond with one heart and voice, Amen and Amen.
3. It is a Church WHICH IS DEPENDENT UPON NO MINISTERS UPON EARTH, however much it values those who preach the gospel to its members. The life of its members does not hang upon Church-membership, or baptism, or the Lord's Supper - although they highly value these things when they are to be had. But it has only one Great Head - one Shepherd, one chief Bishop - and that is Jesus Christ. He alone, By His Spirit, admits the members of this Church, though ministers may show the door. Till He opens the door no man on earth can open it - neither bishops, nor presbyters, nor convocations, nor synods. Once let a man repent and believe the gospel, and that moment he becomes a member of this Church. Like the penitent thief, he may have no opportunity of being baptized; but he has that which is far better than any water-baptism - the baptism of the Spirit. He may not be able to receive the bread and wine in the Lord's Supper;but he eats Christ's body and drinks Christ's blood by faith every day he lives, and no minister on earth can prevent him. He may be ex-communicated by ordained men, and cut off from the outward ordinances of the professing Church; but all the ordained men in the world cannot shut him out of the true Church.
It is a Church whose existence does not depend on forms, ceremonies, cathedrals, churches, chapels, pulpits, fonts, vestments, organs, endowments, money, kings, governments, magistrates or any act of favor whatsoever from the hand of man. It has often lived on and continued when all these things have been taken from it. It has often been driven into the wilderness, or into dens and caves of the earth, by those who ought to have been its friends. Its existence depends on nothing but the presence of Christ and His Spirit; and they being ever with it, the Church cannot die.
4. This is the Church TO WHICH THE SCRIPTURAL TITLES OF PRESENT HONOR AND PRIVILEGE, AND THE PROMISES OF FUTURE GLORY ESPECIALLY BELONG; this is the Body of Christ; this is the flock of Christ; this is the household of faith and the family of God; this is God's building, God's foundation, and the temple of the Holy Ghost. This is the Church of the first-born, whose names are written in heaven; this is the royal priesthood, the chosen generation, the peculiar people, the purchased possession, the habitation of God, the light of the world, the salt and the wheat of the earth; this is the "Holy Catholic Church" of the Apostles' Creed; this is the "One Catholic and Apostolic Church" of the Nicene Creed; this is that Church to which the Lord Jesus promises "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it," and to which He says, "I am with you always, even unto the end of the world"(Matt.16:18; 28:2).
5. This is the only Church WHICH POSSESSES TRUE UNITY. Its members are entirely agreed on all the weightier matters of religion, for they are all taught by one Spirit. About God, and Christ, and the Spirit, and sin, and their own hearts, and faith, and repentance, and necessity of holiness, and the value of the Bible, and the importance of prayer, and the resurrection, and judgment to come - about all these points they are of one mind. Take three or four of them, strangers to one another, from the remotest corners of the earth; examine them separately on these points: you will find them all one judgment.
6. This is the only Church WHICH POSSESSES TRUE SANCTITY. Its members are all holy. They are not merely holy by profession, holy in name, and holy in the judgment of charity; they are all holy in act, and deed, and reality, and life, and truth. They are all more or less conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. No unholy man belongs to this Church.
7. This is the only Church WHICH IS TRULY CATHOLIC. It is not the Church of any one nation or people; its members are to be found in every part of the world where the gospel is received and believed. It is not confined within the limits of any one country, or pent up within the pale of any particular forms of outward government. In it there is no difference between Jew and Greek, black man and white, Episcopalian and Presbyterian - but faith in Christ is all. Its members will be gathered from north, and south, and east, and west, and will be of every name and tongue - but all one in Jesus Christ.
8. This is the only Church WHICH IS TRULY APOSTOLIC. It is built on the foundation laid by the Apostles, and holds the doctrines which they preached. The two grand objects at which its members aim are apostolic faith and apostolic practice; and they consider the man who talks of following the Apostles without possessing these two things to be no better than sounding brass and tinkling cymbal.
9. This is the only Church WHICH IS CERTAIN TO ENDURE UNTO THE END. Nothing can altogether overthrow and destroy it. Its members may be persecuted, oppressed, imprisoned, beaten, beheaded, burned; but the true Chruch is never altogether extinguished; it rises again from its afflictions; it lives on through fire and water. When crushed in one land it springs up in another. The Pharaohs, the Herods, the Neros, the Bloody Marys, have labored in vain to put down this Church; they slay their thousands, and then pass away and go to their own place. The true Church outlives them all, and sees them buried each in his turn. It is an anvil that has broken many a hammer in this world, and will break many a hammer still; it is a bush which is often burning, and yet it's not consumed.
10. This is the only Church OF WHICH NO ONE MEMBER CAN PERISH. Once enrolled in the lists of this Church, sinners are safe for eternity; they are never cast away. The election of God the Father, the continual intercession of God the Son, the daily renewing and sanctifying power of God the Holy Ghost, surround and fence them in like a garden enclosed. Not one bone of Christ's mystical Body shall ever be broken; not one lamb of Christ's flock shall ever be plucked out of His hand.
11. This is the Church WHICH DOES THE WORK OF CHRIST UPON EARTH. Its members are a little flock, and few in numbers, compared with the children of the world; one or two here, and two or three there - a few in this place and few in that. But these are they who shake the universe; these are they who change the fortunes of kingdoms by their prayers; these are they who are the active workers for spreading the knowledge of pure religion and undefiled; these are the life-blood of a country, the shield, the defence, the stay, and the support of any nation to which they belong.
12. This is the Church WHICH SHALL BE TRULY GLORIOUS AT THE END. When all earthly glory is passsed away then shall this Church be presented without spot before God the Father's throne. Thrones, principalities, and powers upon earth shall come to nothing; dignities, and offices, and endowments shall all pass away; but the Church of the first-born shall shine as the stars at the last, and be presented with joy before the Father's throne, in the day of Christ's appearing. When the Lord's jewels are made up, and manifestation of the sons of God takes place, Episcopacy, and Presbyterianism, and Congregationalism will not be mentioned; one Church only will be named, and that is the Church of the elect.
13. Reader, THIS IS THE TRUE CHURCH TO WHICH A MAN MUST BELONG, IF HE WOULD BE SAVED. Till you belong to this, you are nothing better than a lost soul. You may have the form, the husk, the skin, and the shell of religion, but you have not got the substance and the life. Yes, you may have countless outward privileges; you may enjoy great light, and knowledge - but if you do not belong to the Body of Christ, your light and knowledge and privileges will not save your soul. Alas, for the ignorance that prevails on this point! Men fancy if they join this church or that church, and become communicants, and go through certain forms, that all must be right in their souls. It is an utter delusion, it is a gross mistake. All were not Israel who were called Israel, and all are not members of Christ's Body who profess themselves Christian. TAKE NOTICE; you may be a staunch Episcopalian, or Presbyterian, or Independent, or Baptist, or Wesleyan, or Plymouth Brother - and yet not belong to the true Church. And if you do not, it will be better at last if you had never been born.
Return to Rich's Home Page of Reformed Theology
Because it is not all of the bishops in the world. Not even all of the bishops in the US are buffoons.
The branch which is dying is the offshoot of hippy-dippy "progressivism." We've all seen it is a dead end. The Tree is tall and strong and, as I noted, exists not just in those alive today, but in history.
How can you be sure the "revelation " that provided tradition is anymore reliable than God speaking to you through scripture?
Because even Scripture attests to the Church. And of course, the New Testament itself is a product of this "Tradition."
My point is their are 2 sides to that coin when you tar protestants with private interpretation.
Yes, I must decide for myself whether to follow the Church or not. But beyond that, there is no belief in nor need for private revelation of everything. God has worked through men all these years to bring understanding and wisdom. To me, casting all of that aside as "tradition" and insisting that God reveal all understanding to me personally is to fully misunderstand how God has chosen to interact in the world.
And of course, one need only examine the fruits of this belief in private interpretation to realize it's an incorrect path.
SD
But you ignore the examples he gives. And you ignore what he's saying (contextually) with regard to it. And you ingnore the all inclusiveness used. "The flesh" excludes nothing. You're standing that on it's head as if it's a dodge. It isn't. Nor can it be perverted into one. If he'd said "all flesh" you'd be debating the meaning of the word "all". This is legalism - looking for the technical instead of following the spirit.
Jesus is talking about spiritual life. He says with that regard that the flesh profits nothing. Spiritual food nourishes the spirit and fleshly food nourishes the flesh. His statement that the flesh profits nothing to the spirit is correct. It didn't under the old covenant and it doesn't now. Ya'll ignore this, play semantics games and ignore the fact that the bread of life was eaten before Christ ever arrived on the scene. If that is so, how do you suppose they were eating jesus flesh if that is what's required to eat the bread of life. Don't make any sense does it. The bread of life in the OT was the word of God - literally what he spoke. Eating the bread of life was a metaphor for hearing and believing/acting upon God's word. So it's not a new thing. It's just that you guys have to ignore and redefine things to conform them to your version - even if if it makes you look absurd. Like Clinton backed into a corner - you debate the meaning of the word is rather than fess up. This is the face of legalism.
The beauty of the Catholic Church is that we do not rest upon whoever is presently alive. Tradition is "the democracy of the dead" Chesterton said. This means that the "theolgians" we "rely" upon are long gone. And there is no evidence of their being "corrupt."
And what is the difference between such a position and the reliance by the NC churches upon the original Apostles ?
Its use as a spoken language began to diminish after Judah was defeated by the Babylonians. By the 3rd to 2nd centuries B.C.E., it was pretty much replaced by Aramaic as the spoken tongue, although it continued to be used, of course, as the language of the Jewish religion. Since Aramaic was the common tongue of the middle east during this period, as well as being the official language of the Persian empire, it isn't surprising that it became the common spoken language among Jews in the region as well -- just as Greek became the common spoken language for Jews in much of the eastern Mediterranean. The close relationship between Hebrew and Aramaic no doubt made the adaptation easier.
Good question. Not a whole lot, actually. Except that we have an actual succession of history showing where our beliefs came from, and moving the core belief to the era of the Apostles.
Where NC churches tend to read their Reformation-era ideas back into history where they are not. Honestly, does the idea that each person is sovereign to read the Scriptures and decide for Himself what is true even make any sense in a pre-literate, pre-printing press world?
SD
How about Heb 5:13 and 14. If you want to quit being a baby get skilled in the Word. It surprises me to find out how few Christians, even Evangelicals actually read through the bible atleast once per year.
Which is to say that we hold the Truth that homosexuality is wrong. We may have gay priests and bishops, but they have to lie and live in secret.
Contrast with the Episcopalians, who simply say "it's not a sin to be homosexual."
Tell me you see a difference? We hold a standard, even if we can't live up to it. Versus collapsing your standards.
We do the same with contraception. We teach it is wrong and continue to hold that belief as official teaching. Most Americans and Westerners probably violate this teaching constantly. But we don't adapt, we don't take a vote.
SD
An apt expression for all of your posts on this subject.
Maybe it doesn't "obviously say" what you think it does. Aren't you the one who thinks the Bible says that Jesus wasn't "born of a woman?"
SD
Good question. Not a whole lot, actually. Except that we have an actual succession of history showing where our beliefs came from, and moving the core belief to the era of the Apostles.
And the original Apostles don't have such a history ?
Where NC churches tend to read their Reformation-era ideas back into history where they are not. Honestly, does the idea that each person is sovereign to read the Scriptures and decide for Himself what is true even make any sense in a pre-literate, pre-printing press world?
Even in the pre-printing press world, christians were commanded to be discerning in their acceptance of teaching.1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Huh? It's the Protestants that don't have this history.
Even in the pre-printing press world, christians were commanded to be discerning in their acceptance of teaching.
Yeah? Doesn't mean that everyone could read or had his own private Bible. I gather most would just have to trust someone to read the Scriptures to them.
SD
Are you kidding? His post to which you replied was full of quotations and words from the Bible. Are you saying it's no good without chapter-and-verse citations?
I find the Keyword Search at Bible Gateway helpful.
Col.2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Basing your belief on if somthing is right or not on what history says is following the traditions, and philosophy of the world.
Becky
Huh? It's the Protestants that don't have this history.
And if I, a believer, have (access to the teachings of) the Apostles, ... why would I need history ?
Yeah? Doesn't mean that everyone could read or had his own private Bible. I gather most would just have to trust someone to read the Scriptures to them.
And the difference, other than convenience, is what ?
Basing your belief upon your own personal interpretation of a text without regard for what has historically been Christian belief is foolishness.
I see no Protestants have jumped up to defend the teachings against contraception and Onanism. What once all Christians understood to be against God's will is now shrugged off.
SD
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