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To: FormerLib
By the way, doesn't the Roman Catholic church claim that our sacraments, such as the Eucharist, are valid?

Yes we do.

And we honor your faithfulness to tradition. Which is why (speaking of sacraments) we're so baffled and disappointed by your collapse in the face of the contraceptive culture. You don't need me to tell you that Christian marriage is a sacrament of ecclesiology -- of Christ's unreserved, kenotic, life-engendering gift of self for his bride the Church, which he joins and makes one with his body. The Orthodox compromise on contraception undermines every word of the magnificent ecclesiological insights of Christos Yannaras and John Zizioulas.

I am one who considers Paul VI's decision to issue Humanae Vitae, in the face of widespresd, entrenched, and powerful opposition, a prime example of the way "Peter speaks through Leo" (as the Fathers at Chalcedon proclaimed). All the Orthodox piety, learning, and faithfulness are no substitute for the Holy Spirit working even through flawed and inferior men.

63 posted on 10/31/2003 9:46:07 PM PST by Romulus (Nothing really good ever happened after 1789.)
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To: Romulus
Which is why (speaking of sacraments) we're so baffled and disappointed by your collapse in the face of the contraceptive culture.

Because the idea that we have 'collapse[d] in the face of the contraceptive culture' is a pure fiction!

To begin with, not all methods of contraception are permitted. The rhythm method approved by the Roman Catholic Church is one of the few that are. The condemnation of contraception that one may find in the writings of the Church Fathers are not addressing those methods that avoid fertilization (or the rhythm method would also be banned) but the more common methods that are nothing more than abortion, which is always condemned.

Next, not all reasons for using contraception are permitted. In my case, my wife's health would be harmed if she were to have another child. This is not something we have approched in a cavalier manner but a conclusion recommended by her physician. So you'll have to excuse me if I take a dim view of those (not meaning you, Romulus) who suggest that we are going to Hell because we are trying to avoid permanent damage to my wife's health.

All the Orthodox piety, learning, and faithfulness are no substitute for the Holy Spirit working even through flawed and inferior men.

I'm sorry, but the Holy Spirit is an inseperable part of Orthodox piety, learning, and faithfulness. And you will have to excuse me, but I am no more willing to give weight to those hostile to my faith than you would be to accept criticism from the likes of Jack Chick.

65 posted on 11/01/2003 6:30:51 AM PST by FormerLib (The enemy is within!)
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