[FormerLib]

If you insist on including abstinence from sexual relations as a form of contraception, then on that basis you can say that the Catholic Church is permitting contraception.

Thank you for admitting it! Now we can move on.

I wouldn't excuse myself on the basis that, oh well, that other denomination over there does it too.

Actually, I was just pointing out your glass house on the issue.

[findingtruth]

Actually, I was just pointing out your glass house on the issue.

You mean because we have bad priests and bishops? Well hey, even Jesus Christ himself appointed twelve, and one of them was no good. The question is not whether there are bad clergy. The question is which church inherits the, "He who hears you hears me," guarantee.