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So, is there a priest shortage?
Fr. Matthew Kowalski's Home Page ^ | Fr. Matthew Kowalski OSB

Posted on 10/29/2003 8:59:36 AM PST by american colleen

So, is there a priest shortage?

It is fairly common for the press, Catholic or secular, to report about a shortage of Catholic priests that is usually described as a crisis for the Church. It is true that the number of priests in the US has been declining for over a decade. This has been a fairly small decline however, from 53,000 in 1991 to 46,000 in 2001. There has probably been a similar decline in the percentage of active Catholics during these same years, but this is harder to measure accurately. Keep in mind that there are less than 20,000 Catholic parishes in the US, far less than the number of priests. And just for example, if half of the parishes closed overnight, most Catholics would still have a shorter trip to Sunday mass than to their nearest shopping mall. (Thanks to a local bishop for that fact.) I live in an area where towns of less than two hundred people still have a priest serving their parish.

These statistics need to be interpreted in light of an important fact: The Catholic Church is an international, worldwide institution. Priests can and often do travel between nations to meet local needs. Some people think it a problem that the US has imported a few hundred foreign-born priests because our seminaries can't produce enough. Do these people realize that the US has imported half a million computer programmers because our schools can't produce enough?

You won't see much reporting about this, but worldwide the number of priests and seminarians is growing. Between 1990 and 2000, total priests worldwide increased from 401,000 to 405,000. Granted, this is slower than the percent growth in total Catholics, but remember that several other religions are shrinking in the modern, secularized world. In other words, "They wish they had our problems"! Add to this the number of permanent deacons, which exploded from 17,000 to 27,000 during these years. Permanent deacons are ordained clergy who perform baptisms, weddings and preach. They will play a growing role in the future of the Church, but they get very little publicity. The overall result is that the number of Catholic clergy has increased significantly in the last decade. And during those 10 years the number of worldwide Catholic major seminarians grew from 93,000 to 110,000, a very healthy increase. The lack of growth is mostly in the English-speaking nations. And even there the problem is more local than you might think.

Some US Dioceses are ordaining many more priests than others. By comparing the number of priests active in a diocese during 2001 with the same figure from 1991, we can see how the diocese is trending vocationally. The percentage figure represents the 2001 number divided by the 1991 figure. A higher percentage means the diocese is having more success attracting new priests. Compare these relatively successful dioceses:

Atlanta, GA. . . . 123%

Arlington, VA. . 121

Lincoln, NE. . . . 107

Fargo, ND. . . . 101

Rockford, IL. . . . 97

With these relatively unsuccessful ones:

Rochester, NY. . . 72%

Milwaukee, WI. . . 77

Albany, NY. . . . . . 79

New Ulm, MN. . . 79

Joliet, IL. . . . . . . . 80

I hate to use a cliche, but numbers don't lie. Anyone can see a huge difference here. Ultimately, the bishop of a diocese is responsible for vocations. I will leave it to you, gentle reader, to explore what many other Catholics have said about the men who were leading the Dioceses above during those years. I will say that if we had accountability in the Church like major business corporations do, Bishop Matthew Clark of Rochester would have been forced to resign long ago.

Standard business management practice would suggest that we study the Dioceses that are succeeding, see what factors are helping them, and implement these factors in other places. Bishops that fail to do this should be held accountable in some way. This is an area where some new kind of lay empowerment may be needed. If any readers are curious about the percentage figure for your local diocese, contact me and I will calculate it for you. For now, this may be the best "power rating" available to evaluate the performance of Catholic Bishops.


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To: sinkspur
FYI, Arlington had an EXCELLENT Bishop who died prematurely of a heart attack or something. The current Bishop is a bad guy--but the legacy he inherited was substantial in the number of priests and seminarians.
121 posted on 10/29/2003 8:04:44 PM PST by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: ninenot
It is really tough to fight rearguard, ain'a?

I'm not fighting anything.

122 posted on 10/29/2003 8:06:01 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: ninenot
The current Bishop is a bad guy

He's a hero to some--he doesn't allow altar girls.

123 posted on 10/29/2003 8:07:50 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: american colleen; sinkspur
Bruskewicz gets blackballed. He's not PC. I like him because he is not afraid to be Catholic and he doesn't care that he's not PC. Plus, he has a good sense of humor.

All true--and he's a real gentleman, besides.

What makes Sinky think that B. WANTS a larger Diocese--with problems?

124 posted on 10/29/2003 8:08:08 PM PST by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: sinkspur
You sure he doesn't allow them? That policy was instituted by his predecessor. I know that with certainty.

The new guy jut hasn't had the time to "update" Arlington fully...yet.
125 posted on 10/29/2003 8:11:26 PM PST by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: ninenot
The progressives are dead/dying. Long live the Church!!

Amen brother!

If you get a chance, watch tonight's "EWTN Live" show on rerun or the Internet. It concerned catechisis over the last 30 or so years and gave stats of the belief system of younger "Catholics" - the legacy of the progressives. Very sobering.

126 posted on 10/29/2003 8:12:11 PM PST by american colleen
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To: ninenot
What makes Sinky think that B. WANTS a larger Diocese--with problems?

Good point. B. doesn't appear to be career driven and maybe he is content saving souls in his corner of the world.

I live life in "poll mode" a lot. I make it a point to ask priests and nuns what they think about Bruskewicz and the ranges go from a wrinkled nose/distaste to flat out insults from the progressives and from the few orthodox priests I know (don't personally know any orthodox nuns) they respond with a smile and admiration.

127 posted on 10/29/2003 8:17:29 PM PST by american colleen
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To: sinkspur
And yet he is so with the prevailing liberal,progressive zeitgeist.He told John Allen that one of the three major problems in the Church was the shortage of priests and the priestless parishes. He did add that the celibacy issue was not up for discussion,spoken under duress I bet. Cardinal Ratzinger probaably showed up in the middle of the interview.

Talk about Phariseeical,he even has the cemetary business wrapped up here in Phoenix,partnering with our ex-bishop. And then those family crypts he is selling at his coffee shop/water processing plant,or whatever it is."Woe to him".

128 posted on 10/29/2003 8:19:24 PM PST by saradippity
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To: saradippity
I've never liked Mahoney, with his aristocratic bearing. He reminded me of Pius XII: a man bending down to his people, rather than a servant who lifted up his people.
129 posted on 10/29/2003 8:21:45 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: ninenot
The new guy jut hasn't had the time to "update" Arlington fully...yet.

Good article on Loverde and the altarboy girl issue in this WaPo article. Seems CTA is pressuring him big time but the priests in his diocese are conservative - plenty of them, too!

Bishop Loverde had altarboy girls in his last diocese but if he implements them in Arlington he will be doing it against the wishes of most of his priests. And CTA and the feminazis are not happy. Bet Loverde will cave.

130 posted on 10/29/2003 8:26:24 PM PST by american colleen
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To: sinkspur
Would you serve a bishop who spent $200 million on a building? I wouldn't.

Ya but he's been there for quite a while longer than his monument has been there.

131 posted on 10/29/2003 8:28:09 PM PST by american colleen
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To: saradippity
is there a minimum number of Baptists to start a church or do you just need a minister?

Just a minister, and he could actually start in a storefront, a trailer, the basement of another Church, even a tent. If they don't grow though they tend to fold.

132 posted on 10/29/2003 8:31:15 PM PST by Held_to_Ransom (Our forests are a disaster, especially where Uncle Sam cares for them.)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
I must have missed them. Can you name the areas they are in? I'm not aware of any Southern Baptist Churches in my area.

Traditionally, there were none in non-white neighborhoods, but they are expanding now into them in a serious way. There was an article on them in the Enquirer over the summer, and my memory is somewhat vague, but they clearly have turned a leaf and gone for areas they traditionally eshewed.

The Southern Baptists have the same attendance problem the Catholics have - less than 1/3 of those on the roles are in the pews on any Sunday

Yes, but at least they don't have the problems with priests the RCC has been having of late. Granted, that's only in a small number of parishes, but that's not the impression many get from the media.

133 posted on 10/29/2003 8:37:48 PM PST by Held_to_Ransom (Our forests are a disaster, especially where Uncle Sam cares for them.)
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To: american colleen
But then the left will then give the baby to a non-celibate homosexual Episcopalian bishop to raise.

Heh, heh. Maybe so, maybe so. It's probably my impression, and I could very well be wrong, that the right is far more intransigent. The left seems motivated by charity, and right intentions, the right only by sentimentalism.

134 posted on 10/29/2003 8:50:36 PM PST by St.Chuck
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To: saradippity
Some friends of mine and I are getting together a small collection of John XXIII's writings to give to our modernist,progressive,liberal change agents. They are going to be quite surprised.

You might also be interested in the writings of Paul VI. I had always written him off as the progressive pope others have claimed him to be, but have recently discovered how very orthodox he was.I also think many of the change agents will end up going over to some mainstream denominations,who have gone out into the world,or more accurately,been absorbed by the world.

Which is a heck of a lot more honest than claiming that they are the true Catholic Church.

135 posted on 10/29/2003 8:56:37 PM PST by St.Chuck
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To: St.Chuck
The left seems motivated by charity, and right intentions, the right only by sentimentalism.

You gotta come and visit my fair state of Massachusetts and spend some time at one of Boston College's "The Church in the 21st Century" symposiums. The left is not motivated by charity and right intentions except in their own minds. They are all about power and who is gonna have it.

The trads are so overrepresented on FR that you'd think you'd be bumping into them all over the place when you walk down your street. I don't know one trad in real life.

And me, I am motivated by charity, right intentions and sentimentalism, of course ;-)

136 posted on 10/29/2003 8:58:09 PM PST by american colleen
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To: St.Chuck
Paul VI... he was orthodox and like you, I was surprised by this when I read some of the things he wrote. After Pius and then the short time of John, the progressives (especially the dutch ones) were just chomping at the bit to come out of the gate and Paul was shunted aside. Schillebeck tickled the ears of many, sadly.
137 posted on 10/29/2003 9:05:07 PM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
You gotta come and visit my fair state of Massachusetts

No thanks. If ever I go east of the Mississippi, again, I intend to cross the Atlantic as well. Blue America terrifies me.

138 posted on 10/29/2003 9:07:08 PM PST by St.Chuck
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To: St.Chuck; american colleen
It would be so interesting to look at collections vis-a-vis self proclaimed,ordinary progressive or tradionalist Catholics. I fear that now some big money goes into the Church coffers,contributed by persons who have no interest or belief in God,but a great interest in buying the Church to use for their own ends.I think in return for the money certain bishops do the bidding of the high dollar contributors. When the mission is accomplished,it will be bye-bye.

I pose this question of who gives,because it is one facet of charity.You may or may not know,I am very curious and ask questions of people all the time. Because of what I have learned over the years,I believe that the traditional Catholics do give more to the parish and parish organizations and ventures.The others talk a better talk but I am of the opinion they don't walk the talk.

With regards another aspect of charity,that agape or at least filios (think I've mixed up Greek and Latin)portion,I am convinced that the interpretation of love(charity) among most catholics leans toward eros.We forgive others for everything they have done to others,and we forgive ourselves and we feel good about it all.But so often we forget the voiceless,faceless ones;for example,parents,who reported abuses,and relived indignities on their children only to find fr.foof,celebrating the mass on the other side of town,surrounded by a gaggle of geese who adore him.And when called on it,perhaps some action is taken by the bishop. But then the parish rallies around fr.foof,who has always been so compassionate and caring.And the bottom line is charity is withdrawn from those that need it most and bestowed on others who the giver prefers to please.

Many Catholics have lost the concept of justice,without which,there can be no mercy. Mercy's just an empty word that puffs up the person who thinks he has shown it,usually to someone who has not hurt him,but another. AC's funny barb about turning over the baby to the the non-celibate homosexual to me is the perfect example of the "charity" of the left in action.After all we would not want the happy couple to feel they weren't good enough to have a family,would we? That would not be charitable at all.

It's like everyone is reacting,when the Church tells us everything is forgiven that is taken to mean,and quite logically,every thing is permitted.St.Chuck,I am sorry that you had to be the recipient of my meandering mind blurbs,but you must have triggered something up there. Good night.

139 posted on 10/29/2003 9:52:56 PM PST by saradippity
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To: saradippity; american colleen; sinkspur
... they use the figures from the early years,which include all the little kids in minor seminary.
65 posted on 10/29/2003 4:32 PM PST by saradippity

I never even thought of the numbers of kids in minor seminaries being added into the numbers. How dishonest!
80 posted on 10/29/2003 6:33 PM PST by american colleen

Hmmm. Did a better Yahoo search and found that the CARA 60%-decline statistics do exclude minor seminarians.

Nationwide shortage of new priests troubles church
Monday, July 1, 2002


In 1965, there were 8,325 graduate-level Catholic seminarians in the country. By 1995, that number plunged by more than 60 percent, to an all-time low of 3,172, according to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University.
[emphasis mine]

We all know the numbers and we all know that there is a dearth of priests in some areas. But this does not address why there is NOT a dearth of priests in the more orthodox dioceses and why there IS a dearth of priests in the progressive dioceses - which is the topic of this thread.
82 posted on 10/29/2003 6:43 PM PST by american colleen

Excuse me, but I thought the topic of this thread was “So, is there a priest shortage?” which Fr. Kowalski seems to answer in the negative, arguing that 1) there has only been a “fairly small decline” in the number of US priests, because he is counting only from 1991 to 2001; 2) that worldwide the number of priests has increased from 1990 to 2000 (although he admits it is slower than the growth rate of the worldwide Catholic population); and 3) in the US some bishops have better vocation numbers than others (he won’t come out and say it, but he implies that the conservative bishops have the better performance records).

My posts #60, 64 & 74 addressed only point #1, and the overall implication there is no crisis (“So, is there a priest shortage? It is fairly common for the press, Catholic or secular, to report about a shortage of Catholic priests that is usually described as a crisis for the Church.”), because I think his time frame is too narrow, and he does not address the "greying of the clergy" issue.

Please look at the sources you are using! My gosh! CNN and a website which extolls the virtues of RENT-A-PRIEST?!?
77 posted on 10/29/2003 6:29 PM PST by american colleen

But my real concern is that you find yourself in the company of liberal, modernist, progressive Amchurchians.
91 posted on 10/29/2003 7:00 PM PST by saradippity

Well, as Sinkspur points out, the source of the stats is neither CNN nor an anti-celibacy website, but the Center of Applied Research in the Apostolate. My initial Yahoo search pulled up those two sites and they had quotable paragraphs comparing the 1960s to the late 1990s / early 2000s.

And I ignore the “you find yourself in the company of” ad hominem because my mother always taught me that the argument “your evidence must be wrong because I disagree with your interpretation” is fallacious.

140 posted on 10/29/2003 10:10:57 PM PST by Dajjal
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