Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis
Trad-X (Traditional Catholic Generation-X) ^ | Aug 16, 2001 | Pete Vere

Posted on 10/27/2003 12:47:07 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker

From: milford@e... Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 2:42 pm Subject: Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis

Greetings!

I am attaching the transcript of a thread initiated by one of our listmembers on another list, namely CDLEO, concerning annulments. Of particular interest to me, is how it illustrates the misleading nature of statistics, and the need to treat the illness, rather than the symptoms -- in this case, through better marriage preparation.

Funny how some of the intellectual giants in the "orthodox" Catholic press never picked up on this.

DLA '54

+ + +

From: pete_vere@y... Date: Fri Aug 10, 2001 6:14 pm Subject: Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis

Hi, I just got back from a regional canon law conference, where Fr. Sable of the Roman Rota gave an interesting presentation.

One of the interesting things that came out is the actual annulment rate among Catholics. Turns out that only between 30 and 40% of annulments in the United States pertain to Catholic marriages. The vast majority pertain to non-Catholic marriages of which one party now seeks to marry a Catholic, or convert to Catholicism.

However, when we look only at marriages attempted in the Catholic Church, our per-capita annulment ratio is reportedly lower than both Italy and Poland.

Pax Christi, Pete Vere

+ + +

From: artsippo@a... Date: Sat Aug 11, 2001 2:34 pm Subject: Re: [cdleo] Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis

This is an interesting set of statistics. It shows that at least half of all annullments represent ACTUAL or POTENTIAL converts to the faith. Strange, but the annullment process may be a tool of evangeliaztion.

Any thoughts?

Art

+ + +

From: pete_vere@y... Date: Sun Aug 12, 2001 3:26 am Subject: Re: Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis

Dear Art,

--- In cdleo@y..., artsippo@a... wrote: > This is an interesting set of statistics. It shows that at least > half of all annullments represent ACTUAL or POTENTIAL converts to > the faith. Strange, but the annullment process may be a tool of > evangeliaztion. > > Any thoughts?

Yeah, I think we have to look at the Bible-belt as well. It is not uncommon for individuals to have attempted marriage multiple times before meeting a Catholic, or seeking to convert to Catholicism.

For example, a friend of mine from the Deep South had a couple come to him wanting to be received into the Catholic Church. She was from a fundamentalist protestant background, and had attempted seven prior marriages before meeting her present spouse. The first of these prior marriages was attempted when she was fifteen, and the last one ended when she was about twenty-four, making for roughly one a year.

Her eighth marriage, to a guy who was also fundy prot background, was in its tenth year, and thus much more stable than the previous ones. However, he too had gone through three marriages beforehand, each of which lasted somewhere between a year and three years. Each party had come from a similar background, whereby their parents had married a number of times.

Suddenly, my buddy was looking at ten annulments for one couple seeking to enter the Church. However, all those previous marriages were legitimately invalid, because the parties had entered the marriage partially motivated by their erroneous belief marriage was soluable, and thus they could get out of it if things didn't work out.

Pax Christi, Pete Vere

+ + +

From: "Christopher Zehnder" Date: Sat Aug 11, 2001 3:33 pm Subject: Re: [cdleo] Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis

Mr. Vere,

Is there any documentation on this? It's sounds very interesting.

Pax Christi, Christopher Zehnder

+ + +

From: pete_vere@y... Date: Sun Aug 12, 2001 3:11 am Subject: Re: Some perspective on the Annulment Crisis

> Mr. Vere,

Just Pete will do...

> Is there any documentation on this? It's sounds very interesting. > > Pax Christi, > Christopher Zehnder

Yeah, the statistic cited was from Msgr. Sable who serves as a judge on the Roman Rota. The Vatican keeps all sorts of statistics on annulments, so I would imagine they're available. I can also say, although not scientific, that in the somewhere over 50 marriage cases I have worked on, less than half involved a Catholic party.

Nevertheless, I am just beggining my own research on this issue, and have thus far relied on information provided to me by other canonists who have been keeping tabs a lot longer than I have. However, a former classmate and I are seriously thinking of collaborating on some future projects concerning this issue for the Catholic media.

Pax Christi, Pete Vere

+ + +

fini


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: annulment; catholic; catholiclist; crisis; divorce; remarriage
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-59 next last
To: narses
The author raises the question whether there should be a "two-tiered system of civil and sacramental weddings," such as some other countries have. And he seems inclined to consider this possibility favourably.

As do I. The situation is especially perilous for the Church in Canada, in light of the Halpern decision of the Ontario Court of Appeal.

The Church should not give sanction to the State's perverted definition of marriage by acting as registrar of civil marriage.

21 posted on 10/27/2003 5:35:10 PM PST by Loyalist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Loyalist
I'm unfamiliar with that. I know that the institution of marraige and family is under major assault everywhere. I'd like to see the American Bishops support His Holiness in defending the family rather than working overtime to abandon it.
22 posted on 10/27/2003 5:37:38 PM PST by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: narses

Sharing the law of the church


10/14/03

NANCY HAUGHT

Conventions come and go in the Rose City, and some raise more questions than consciousness. But a gathering this week of about 450 canon lawyers of the Catholic Church might do both.

The Canon Law Society of America is holding its 2003 convention at the DoubleTree Hotel at Lloyd Center through noon Thursday. The agenda includes sexual-abuse investigations and the laws that govern the selection of bishops.

Canon law is the codified system that binds the Roman Catholic Church. With its roots dating back to ancient Roman law, it is similar to codes that govern German and French citizens and very different from the common law system that governs Americans. The exception is Louisiana, which bases its state laws on canon law and, for example, calls its counties "parishes."

The Oregonian asked the Rev. Patrick S. Brennan, the judicial vicar, or chief judge, of the Archdiocese of Portland, about canon law and its relevance to the 350,000 Catholics living in Western Oregon. His answers are edited for clarity and space considerations.

What is canon law?

It's a codified system, which differs from the common-law system most Americans know. Canon law tends to speak in broad principles, and it demands interpretation. Common law tries to cover every base with no loopholes, no dispensations.

What is a canon lawyer?

A canon lawyer knows this codified system and assists the bishop in interpreting the law in particular cases. A canon lawyer may be a man or a woman, a priest or a layperson. Most of them deal with the annulment process, which is where most people rub shoulders with canon law.

What, in the Catholic context, is an annulment?

An annulment is the recognition that something essential was lacking from a marriage so that another marriage is possible. If something essential is missing, then a marriage is not valid. In the Catholic context, an annulment doesn't annul anything; it simply recognizes that a bond of marriage never happened.

In what other ways does canon law affect a member of the Catholic Church?

Canon law defines the rights and obligations of Christians. For example, the right to hold an office in the church for which they are qualified; the freedom to make known their spiritual needs and receive the church's assistance; the liberty to found and govern associations; to receive a Christian education; to confidentiality about anything revealed to a priest in the confessional.

The law also lays out a Christian's obligations: No one is permitted to damage unlawfully the good reputation of another, and all are obliged to promote social justice and to assist the poor out of their own resources.

How long is canon law?

It fills one volume. You can hold it in your hand, something you can't do with civil law. There are 1,752 canons, and the final words, in Latin, translate, "The supreme law of the church is always the salvation of souls." Nancy Haught: 503-294-7625; nancyhaught@news.oregonian.com
23 posted on 10/27/2003 5:40:45 PM PST by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: narses
It's the decision which declared the common-law definition of marriage, as being between one man and woman to the exclusion of all others, to be inconsistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The imperial Canadian judiciary is even worse than the American.

24 posted on 10/27/2003 5:41:15 PM PST by Loyalist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Loyalist
Wow. So much for Canada then. Zot, eh?
25 posted on 10/27/2003 5:44:16 PM PST by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: narses; sinkspur
This data contradicts Vasoli's work, "What God Has Joined Together : The Annulment Crisis in American Catholicism" where he says "The United States is home to only six percent of the world's Catholics, but it now accounts for 75 percent of all Church annulments.

There is no contradiction at all. Most of the Annullments are of Protestants.

It is generally accepted that there are about 6 million Catholic marriages (sacramental and non-sacramental) involving Catholics which have been sundered by divorce in the courts over the past 35 years (for some persepctive, 20 million marriages have been contracted in the Church the period 1943 to 2002). It is also generally accepted that only 10% of these have ever availed themselves of a Church annullment. Yet, in the past 35 years, there have been around 2 million annullments granted by the Catholic Church in the US.

600,000 << 2,000,000

It implies that around 2/3 of all annullments granted since 1968 have been to non-Catholics, which is independently confirmed by the testimony of people involved in the tribunals.

Additionally, about 1/4+ of the annullments granted are documentary annullments. These are simply given out when a Catholic comes along and can show invalidity from things like marriage by a justice of the peace, in a Protestant Church without dispensation, to an inelligible person, etc. These cases are simply indisputable as being invalid canonically.

Put 2 and 2 together, and you will realize relatively few of the non-documentary annullments are granted to dissolve putitative Catholic marriages, such as those of the Kennedy's.

26 posted on 10/27/2003 8:27:44 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
And the rest of the points raised in post 14?
27 posted on 10/27/2003 8:31:31 PM PST by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: narses
One other point, high profile annulments granted to Kennedy-esque wealthy and powerful folks make cynics of the laity.

These sort of claims were made against the Church by the Protestants as well - that the wealthy always seemed able to get an annullment.

28 posted on 10/27/2003 8:35:32 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
Are factual claims made false when made by heretics?
29 posted on 10/27/2003 8:37:58 PM PST by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
And not always, Henry the VIIIth had troubles, no? :)
30 posted on 10/27/2003 8:38:48 PM PST by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: narses; sinkspur
The article and book do not appear to address the question of WHO is getting the annullments, only that they are being given out. Its the WHO that I posted this thread about, not the numbers.

Most annullments appear to be going to Protestant converts. Knowing many Protestants, I assure you that nearly all of them do not believe in the indissolubility of marriage, and many reject the necessity of childbearing and the inherent unity of faithfulness. Such people cannot contract a valid sacramental marriage that would be recognizable upon entering the Church. Example, I know one couple where they contracted a "marraige", but they thought it okay that the wife indulge her lesbianism with a mutual friend. The marriage ended in divorce, with the wife running off with her female friend. The husband, by now sterilized, contracted another "marriage" with a woman who did not want children (no problem there?), and who felt adultery in marriage was okay. I guess you can imagine where that ended up. The man is now on his third "marriage". For him to enter the Church, he needs two annullments. Would you deny them to uphold the "sanctity" and "indissolubility" of those two Protestant "marriages"? Does it make the Church a laughingstock to nullify them?

How about this case. A Catholic friend of my wife and I is marrying in the Church a divorced Catholic man who has returned to the faith. He will have to obtain an annullment for his previous "marriage", which was before a Justice of the Peace to a woman who excluded the possiblity of childbearing. Is it a mockery of Catholic marriage to grant this annullment and let my friend marry her fiance in the Church? I have had two other friends in similar circumstances, who were married civilly and then divorced, and then wanted to marry sacramentally in the Church, but needed and annullment.

These are the real sort of ordinary annullment cases which do not get thrown to the media wolf-pack, like the Kennedy's.

After he had been married for fifteen years, he was notified that he was the respondent in the case for annulment of his marriage, which he was perfectly sure had been valid.

Unless he could read the mind of his wife, I don't see how he could say this. I've found the very existence of annullments leaves some people confused about their obligations. One Catholic woman I knew thought that adultery was grounds for an annullment, and entered into a marriage upon that basis, thinking she had an out in this circumstance. Do you think she contracted a valid marriage? Does her husbands complete valid intent have any bearing upon her invalid intent?

He has now become an expert in this matter and has decided to share with others what he has learned.

I've poured over statistics and talked to tribunalists too. Am I an "expert"?

31 posted on 10/27/2003 8:53:56 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: narses
Are factual claims made false when made by heretics?

Were Luther's factual claims about Fr. Tetzel false or true theologically?

32 posted on 10/27/2003 8:57:31 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
What of this then?


1. There is advertising in church bulletins, Catholic newspapers, and even the secular press, that annulments are available, sometimes with a suggested guarantee that they will be granted. "Some invitations practically promise an annulment to all who apply. The promotional efforts . . . may evoke responses from . . . spouses who dream of greener marital pastures but would not seriously consider separation and divorce were annulment not presented as a convenient and acceptable alternative."

One brochure said: "Usually once a request for annulment is accepted, a favorable decision is given. However, a careful review is made before a request is accepted . . . . A ëfavorable' decision is synonymous with annulment; evidently upholding the validity of marriage is ëunfavorable.'"
33 posted on 10/27/2003 8:57:59 PM PST by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: narses
And not always, Henry the VIIIth had troubles, no? :)

His disappointment becuase of the variation from expected outcomes is the direct cause of the schism he initiates.

34 posted on 10/27/2003 8:58:35 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
What has Luther to do with this thread?
35 posted on 10/27/2003 8:58:37 PM PST by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: narses; sinkspur; Loyalist; Catholicguy
So the 40% (assuming that Vere's data is even close to accurate)

Last comment. You need to read the original post more closely. Pete Vere referenced a specific authority for his claim:

Hi, I just got back from a regional canon law conference, where Fr. Sable of the Roman Rota gave an interesting presentation.

One of the interesting things that came out is the actual annulment rate among Catholics. Turns out that only between 30 and 40% of annulments in the United States pertain to Catholic marriages. The vast majority pertain to non-Catholic marriages of which one party now seeks to marry a Catholic, or convert to Catholicism.

The very Roman Rota that Mr. Vasoli is proclaiming is the true upholder of the sanctity of American Catholic Marriages is the one which is providing this data that the main part of the question is not American Catholics. I suppose you could always write a letter to them if you need to clarify this for yourself. They'd probably be happy to give you a brief overview.

that are Catholic on Catholic annulments don't represent a crisis?

Looking around at American society since 1968, are you surprised there is a crisis? When 50% of Catholics coming to be married are living in sin and when around 80-85% of Catholics reject or don't know the Church's teaching about contraception, you are shocked that many less miss the mark on the true nature of marriage (a much more subtle question to boot)?

36 posted on 10/27/2003 9:09:30 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
Strange, but the annullment process may be a tool of evangeliaztion.

Mohammed sez: Strange, but the jihad process may be a tool of evangeliaztion.

37 posted on 10/27/2003 9:10:18 PM PST by Romulus (Nothing really good ever happened after 1789.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: narses
What of this then?

Since so few Catholics avail themselves of something that is supposedly being guaranteed to work, we would need to assume a possible reason for this:

1) Weak cases are screened out by the Pastor's of Parishes.

2) 85%+ of divorced Catholics reject modern annullment practice because they hold the indisolubility of marriage at a much higher level than does the Church. (Yet many of these same people remarry outside the Church and continue frequenting the sacraments.)

3) 85%+ of divorced Catholics think annullments are just a big hassle and a joke that they don't need to deal with, because they are already divorced, and that first Church marriage was just to make the folks happy. Plus God understands our hearts, yadda, yadda, yadda ...

I suggest (1) is probably likely for much of it, with a smattering of (2) and (3)'s.

Do you have some alternate theories for why so few Catholic divorcees come before the tribunal? Lets assume all the annullments given out since 1968 were only to Catholics. If so, only 2 million of 6 million divorced Catholic marriages went before a tribunal and were dissolved, leaving 4 million unions in marital limbo.

There must be something at work keeping those 4 millions back from a "guaranteed" process.

38 posted on 10/27/2003 9:18:00 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
However, when we look only at marriages attempted in the Catholic Church, our per-capita annulment ratio is reportedly lower than both Italy and Poland."

In Italy and most of Europe men have many mistresses and the wives accept it . They do not need to divorce, their adultery already condemns them.

I do not think that the italian Catholics are anybody's role model

About 95 percent of Italy’s people are Roman Catholics. Most baptisms, weddings, and funerals are held in churches, but only about 30 percent of all Italians attend church regularly.

In 1978, voters voted to allow abortions.

They have less than replacement birth rates..

So the Catholic Annulment Scandal is really the fault of Protestants.

LOL Yea and we are at fault for the apostasy in Italy. I think we caused the sun spots and the fires in California as well as the war in Iraq

39 posted on 10/27/2003 9:57:52 PM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
In Italy and most of Europe men have many mistresses and the wives accept it .

I'm pretty sure "most" is not accurate. Over 50%??? Are you sure???

40 posted on 10/27/2003 10:05:28 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-59 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson