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To: ksen; drstevej; CCWoody; RnMomof7; xzins; Corin Stormhands; Alex Murphy; CARepubGal; Wrigley
Every thing damnable in him he brought upon himself, by his revolt and fall. Of this Scripture reminds us, lest, by believing that he was so created at first, we should ascribe to God what is most foreign to his nature. For this reason, Christ declares, (John 8:44p) that Satan, when he lies, "speaketh of his own," and states the reason, "because he abode not in the truth."

Thanks ksen - as a damnable, heretical arminian - could someone spell out for me something that catches my eye here - Is Calvin assigning "free will" to satan, recognizing God is not the author of evil ?

am I reading that right when he abides not in the truth by choice ?

I recognize God knows that choice before satan has made it - - help me out here

6 posted on 10/20/2003 6:20:41 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Revelation 911
Let me try....

Satan was not created with Sin present. He was created good, as everything God created was good (Ge 1:31).

At some point in time Satan sinned and fell. Satan was created good and had the capacity to remain good. He chose to sin all on his own.

Of course God knew before He had created the first atom that Satan would fall into sin and yet He created anyway.

If God had initially created Satan with sin than you could safely charge God with being the Author of Sin. However, He didn't create Satan with sin, He created Satan good.

I think that is the difference.
8 posted on 10/20/2003 7:09:09 AM PDT by ksen (HHD)
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To: Revelation 911; ksen; Jean Chauvin; xzins
- could someone spell out for me something that catches my eye here - Is Calvin assigning "free will" to satan, recognizing God is not the author of evil ?

From the text of Institutes Rev:

Moreover, though we say that Satan resists God, and does works at variance with His works, we at the same time maintain that this contrariety and opposition depend on the permission of God. I now speak not of Satan's will and endeavour, but only of the result. For the disposition of the devil being wicked, he has no inclination whatever to obey the divine will, but, on the contrary, is wholly bent on contumacy and rebellion. This much, therefore, he has of himself, and his own iniquity, that he eagerly, and of set purpose, opposes God, aiming at those things which he deems most contrary to the will of God. But as God holds him bound and fettered by the curb of his power, he executes those things only for which permission has been given him, and thus, however unwilling, obeys his Creator, being forced, whenever he is required, to do Him service.

That does not appear what one would define or understand as free will. The question that you are getting at i believe is: "Did Satan in an original state of perfection excercise free will and rebel against God"? The answer to that is that i cannot know. i don't know the extent of free will, or even if God has it (knowing that there are some things that God cannot do) as we are popularly defining it. Maybe that is the key to this controversy, we are using a term and do not know the correct definition of it, or at least a consistent definition. IMO we need to agree on a definition of terms before we presume to argue pro or con on the question.

31 posted on 10/20/2003 6:58:32 PM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord (I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper)
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