Replies

"I don't think it's eisegetical at all. It operates under a more pure definition of "receive."
The bottom line is really this, Jean. We have 2 contenders for the understanding of salvation.
1. The person is moved all the way through regeneration by a specific act of God.
2. The person is enlightened by God and expected to make a choice to believe.
3. Little elves carry ideas in the shape of little lincoln logs into the person's brain and construct their doctrines into a salvation house.

The real issue is which seems to align better with scripture."

Then maybe it would help if you posted more of the passage you quoted:

John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

x, the "will" is not the impetus. Salvation is ~ALL~ of God!

Jean

Jean, that is why there are 2 major contenders for the prize. I'm not going to write on this board that calvinism does not have its point.

Nor would I say that arminianism does not have its point.

To your credit, the verse "nor of the will of...man...but of God..." does provide some support for your position.

You must admit, though, that the arminians will be able to fit that scripture within their paradigm. They will emphasize the ordo: (1) received (choice) and then (2) "He gave power to BECOME..."

They will say that the choice inititates the "regeneration" and that that miraculous working of power is all of God.

That is what makes this an enduring controversy. There seems to be no verse that each camp cannot fit within their paradigm.

I'll be honest, though, I'm leaning strongly toward a syncretism of DrSteveJ's "unlimited atonement" and P-Marlowe's "God in eternity and outside of time."

The predestination issue no longer concerns me because there is little difference in the culpability that arises from a preplanned predestination and a foreknowledge-based predestination. You must see that if you accept any variety of "predestining" that you necessarily are going to affect the issue of "irresistibility" of the call. One is a preplanned irresistibility and the other a certainty-based irresistibility, but nonetheless, you have an element of irresistibility there.

I am clearly no longer any kind of pure arminian if they'd accept me as an arminian at all.