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To: Revelation 911; ksen
Rev, you and ksen agree. Arminians believe that no one can choose Christ without the Holy Spirit's intervention. Calvinists believe the same thing.

Both of you believe that when left to their own devices, a human being will never choose Christ.

Without the Holy Spirit's intervention no one can choose Christ.

It's just that Ksen believes the Holy Spirit intervenes by regenerating the individual. You believe that the Holy Spirit intervenes by ENLIGHTENING the individual short of regeneration so that he/she can make a knowing choice.
13 posted on 10/20/2003 10:27:49 AM PDT by xzins (And now I will show you the most excellent way!)
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To: xzins; Revelation 911; ksen
"Rev, you and ksen agree. Arminians believe that no one can choose Christ without the Holy Spirit's intervention. Calvinists believe the same thing."

Actually, there is a difference. Calvinism believes that through God's unmerited favor (grace), he gives us our Faith in which we believe in him.

Hebrews 12
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The arminian denies this.

"It's just that Ksen believes the Holy Spirit intervenes by regenerating the individual. You believe that the Holy Spirit intervenes by ENLIGHTENING the individual short of regeneration so that he/she can make a knowing choice."

Arminians also take issue with the Irresistable nature of God's grace (the "I" in T.U.L.I.P.).

This, then, begs the question as to whether the you and the Arminians believe that this "Enlightening" is "Irresistable".

If this "Enlightening" is not "Irresistable", then what good is it?

If this "Enlightening" is "Irresistable", then what is with the Arminian objection to Calvinism's "Irresistable Grace"?

Jean

15 posted on 10/20/2003 12:01:41 PM PDT by Jean Chauvin (God, who will from shame deliver, Is my God, my rock, forever!)
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