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To: Revelation 911
didnt satan act in his own free will - even though God knew what that will would be?

Sure, Satan freely chose to sin, Adam freely chose to sin, I freely choose to sin.

I know Im splitting hairs here - but as satan was free to choose - arent we, as well, free to choose God?

I don't think you would find any Calvinist that would argue otherwise. They would say of course Man is free to choose, it's just that without Divine intervention Man would never freely choose to believe on Jesus Christ.

11 posted on 10/20/2003 8:03:41 AM PDT by ksen (HHD)
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To: ksen; xzins
I don't think you would find any Calvinist that would argue otherwise. They would say of course Man is free to choose, it's just that without Divine intervention Man would never freely choose to believe on Jesus Christ.

Ksen - we still dont diverge here - Salvation is an act of the Holy Spirit and Gods grace- wether he comes upon me when I ask is another story as only God knows my heart.

hey x, do you see the point I am poorly making?

12 posted on 10/20/2003 10:17:03 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: ksen; Revelation 911
My two cents. Not official

God created Satan good .(and the army to follow him in rebellion)

In order to give men or people a "free will" they had to have something to choose. If I imprison you and only give you green jello to eat every day, your free will is useless.

So God created rebellion and sin (same thing) as potential choices that free will would have real meaning and choice would be a real choice .

Before God ever created the ability to exercise the choices , God knew what the choices would be under certain circumstances.

God in that way foreordained the fall of Satan and man.

But we must remember that as all things were perfect at creation it was a perfect free will that made the choices (unlike our bound will). Yet even today man is not "forced " to sin, it is a choice man makes. God does not force men to sin, neither does He restrain any man from coming to Him

I think we need to remember that man is not the center of creation. The purpose of creation is to glorify God. We have a hard time understanding that the fall glorifies God' righteousness and holiness and justice and mercy.

Without the fall We would not know them or praise God for them.
60 posted on 10/22/2003 8:02:21 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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