Vatican: U.S. Catholic Sex Scandal Was Overstated

Washington Post ^ | Friday, October 10, 2003; 4:16 PM | Reuters

[RaceBannon]

Vatican: U.S. Catholic Sex Scandal Was Overstated Reuters Friday, October 10, 2003; 4:16 PM VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The media has exaggerated a sex scandal that has shaken the U.S. Roman Catholic Church and unfairly tainted thousands of priests with overzealous coverage, Pope John Paul II's top aide said Friday. "The scandals in the United States received disproportionate attention from the media," Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano told Reuters in an interview. "There are thieves in every country, but it's hard to say that everyone is a thief."

[Destro]

It is easy. Ask any Catholic scholar - did the Council of Nicea allow married clergy (Pope voted yes on it)? Yes. End of story.

[Destro]

It is easy. Ask any Catholic scholar - did the Council of Nicea allow married clergy (Pope voted yes on it)? Yes. End of story.

PS: I find it funny that Catholics trot out the Bible and get all Protestant Sola Scriptura like on this subject and in this case ignore tradition the ecumenical council rulings. Words alone can be twisted around and made to mean many things. That is why the Church fathers rejected Sola Scriptura and created the Ecumenical Councils to debate create the canons of the Church. Married Clergy was thus confirmed as acceptable up to a point by the Apostolic successors.

[saradippity]

I did a Google search and found that the information you are using is subject to dispute. Just hit on a couple of references on the Council of Nicea. I input the name of the council and then followed it with celibacy,continence and pulled up some interesting articles that show it is not quite as you relate it.

Regards the reasons scriptures are used by Catholics to argue celibacy;when arguing with Bible only Christians they could or would not argue except by using biblical references. To continue the debate it was necessary.Going to scripture turned out to be the very easiest argument for celibacy imaginable.

Just goes to show you how "spot on" Pope John Paul II was in his encyclical Fides et Ratio. He starts out by saying faith and reason are two wings carrying us to Truth. Powerful encyclical ,you should read it.

[Just mythoughts]

My King JAMES says "a sister a wife". (heretic) So you have a copy of the original GREEK?

So what does it mean whether it says "sister" or "wife" to the subject matter at hand?

How does what the subject matter of ICorinthians 8 and 9 have to do with claiming that a "priest cannot marry" or that a "priest must be a man".

You think Peter had a choice but to deny after Christ told him he would? HELLO!

There is much written what is required to be a "priest" preacher or REV. guess you have missed all those instructions. Why do think the priest/preacher/rev class will be in line for judgment FIRST.

Seems to me the "CHURCH" coverning up personal sins makes them a partaker in the sin.

Where exactly did Paul say woman you cannot be a "priest"?

Man sure does love that woman submitting unto them, however, there is a condition and that is the man be like Christ, willing to die for her.

I will not dispute that status Catholic Church gave Mary the mother of Christ and other children.

Until an search is done in the bowels of the Vatican you nor anyone else can claim that no original Hebrew or Greek test still exist.

Adam said Genesis 3:12 "The woman whom Thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." Adam blame our Heavenly Father and the woman, when he was told directly not to "TOUCH".

Boy talk about reading into what is there. Mary had to say YES, please give scripture for this. Mary asked the question of how she would have a child since she was not married, seems a reasonable question? How you can make this about Mary giving permission or even being ask permission shows your own lack of understanding.

The messenger said behold, that shalt conceive in they womb....
now where did Mary get asked if this was ok.

You think for one minute that our Heavenly Father ever considered that Mary if she had found favour in His eyes would not be willing once she understood. I don't get it Mary was elected/selected you think our Heavenly Father had a list of women He plan to asked if Mary said no way. Who do you think is in control?

When do you think that this plan of our Heavenly Father's started, to have Mary here on this earth at that specific time and place, you think if happened by chance. Where is the first time in the WORD we are told about a virgin conceiving? So what else does our Heavenly Father have planned right down to the minute? Not you nor your church or all those hertics will alter or change the plan.

We are told "I have foretold you all things", and pervert priest is but one of the things foretold.

[Destro]

www.vatican.va: The Orthodox Churches and priestly celibacy

[lupie]

I asked both in private and public what an IFB is and can't seem to get an answer. I have racked my poor brain and can't figure it out. So, again, I ask.. what did CTID mean by IFB..

Bueller??


Bueller??


Anyone??

[biblewonk]

Vatican: U.S. Catholic Sex Scandal Was Overstated

Yeah, instances of child molestation was really only 10 percent higher than in Arkansas trailer courts.

[newgeezer]

So, again, I ask.. what did CTID mean by IFB..

Good question. I had come up with a wild guess. But, the Acronym Finder offers little help.

[newgeezer]

Sniffing that ol' stinky shoe again today, eh?

Be very careful. ;O)

[Aquinasfan]

Now that we have some distance from the events, it's apparent that the scandal was overblown. For those who say that "one abused child is too many" I ask the following question, where is the coverage of child abuse in other denominations, public schools, private schools and summer camp?

The unusual characteristic of this scandal was the bishops' (or bishop's) complicity in shuffling around abusive priests. As far as I know, this behavior was limited to Cardinal Law and maybe a handful of other bishops.

The greatest scandal is that homosexual candidates are being admitted to seminaries and that orthodox candidates are being weeded out.

[lupie]

Hey! I like the acronym finder. Thanks :) I had a few wild guesses myself, but not much made sense or was very nice.

Maybe the cubs will win the World Series before I find out.

[Aquinasfan]

Why are priests not allowed to marry? Does it say in the New Testament that priests cannot marry? If someone could help me here, thanks.

Latin Rite Catholic priests have married in the past. Catholic priests of the Eastern Rites are allowed to marry today. Some Latin Rite (Roman Catholic) Catholic priests are licitly married today. Celibacy is a Church discipline, not a dogma, and it is based on the words of Christ:

Matthew 19:12

For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[ 19:12 Or have made themselves eunuchs] because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

St. Paul treats celibacy at length in 1 Corinthians 7.

[Aquinasfan]

I've actually seen the cartoons with the "alligator-head" mitres. Real low-brow disgusting cartoons the likes we see in say, a Neo-Nazi or Jack Chick tract.

You mean this one? I wonder why I never saw this in my gov't school history book?

FYI, I heard James Akin say that he ran into Jack Chick recently. Yes, you heard it right. I had always thought that Jack Chick was like Bette Crocker. But no, he's a real guy. According to James, he's pretty reclusive. Apparently James ran into him at the opening of a Jack Chick film. Jack asked him if he belonged to any particular denomination. James said, "yes, the Catholic Church." Jack laughed. Apparently they had a polite discussion. Jack was familiar with Catholic Answers but not James Akin in particular. Talk about "when worlds collide." The whole thing is too much for me to get my head around. I'm still processing...

[RaceBannon]

40 tears of systematic coverup and refusal to place any of these perverts in jail is overblown??

I am at a loss for words.

You people are defending people who hide buggerers of your children.

You are calling it some moral equivalency of some other church which actually arrests their perverts, while you hide your own perverts who go out and commit buggery again and again, and have done so for over 40 years that we know of due to this scandal.

Hiding one pervert is an outrage. Just one.

In Boston alone, there was over 500 cases of buggery, right? In one Diocese?

And you call it overblown.

You are one sick man.

[carpio]

Pinging the catholic list.

Catholic list?? I am thinking of converting to Catholicism. Could you add me to this list? Thanks.

carpio

[Aquinasfan]

Take a deep breath and read my post again.

[RaceBannon]

my comment still stands. You tried to draw some moral equivalency to other denominations, where there is no national/international office, where priests were transferred only to bugger again.

In each of the other cases you can provide, the police were involved in a short time.

Name me one Bishop who was arrested for covering up this perversion. For the 40 years of the same people hiding the same perverts. Name me one denomination that has anything that is 1/50th that type of scandal.

Name me one Catholic Father who knew his kid got buggered who struck out at the Priest.

My comment still stands. The allowing of homosexuals in the Priesthood is a separate and distinct issue.

Allowing perverts to bugger your children and then say it is just an overblown case of over 500 kids getting buggered has got to be one of the sickest comments any person can ever make. You win that prize with your post.

[GatekeeperBookman]

Dittos to your criticisms-my wife & I have 'fired' his church-but the man & the late great Catholic Church were crucial in the fall of the 'formely soviets'.

I do regard the man as having been to old, sick & weak ( including his minor setback from the 9mm lead poison ) for him to have dealt with the moral collapse within the institution. I would presume that the structure of the institution has long been arranged so as to allow those who hang on to manipulate his public & private actions, policies, appearance, &etc with regard to the homosexual takeover.

[bigcat00]

After reading your posts,I whipped out my copy of the canons of Nicea. What I found in canon III was a prohibition against clergy having certain women co-habiting with them to whom they were not related. There is or was at least apparently a debate on whether this included wives or not. One ancient gloss on the text (denominated in my version as the "Ancient Epitome") says that "No one shall have a woman in his house except his mother or sisteeer, and persons altogether beyond suspicion."

At the same time you are correct that the council rejected mandatory celibacy for all priests. BUT at least according to my translation (The Ante-Nicene and Post-Nicen Fathers, Eerdmans,2nd ed.),both Greek and Roman churches at the time accepted the position that once a single man was ordained, he could not marry. I was under the impression that this is still the case, ie, that once an Orthodox priest or bishop (sorry if I use the wrong term) is ordained he, unlike a Protestant minister, cannot marry. Is that true?

There is a difference between Nicea saying on the one hand that we will not ban all priests from being married (when at the time some of them ovbiously had taken vows of celibacy)and, on the other hand, your position that clerical celibacy is apparently always wrong. It would seem that a prohibition on marriage for clergy or bishops who were not preivously married is at least a partial adoption of the Western position on the subject,would it not? What Nicea cleaerly did not do was what Luther did,which was to declare celibacy inappropriate for clergy.

Finally, to go back to a much earlier post of yours, you stated that there was a double standard in the Catholic Church that allowed some clergy to be married and others not, and that this was somehow unfair. No one holds a gun to a priest's head when he takes a vow of celibacy, which is viewed as a gift. In fact, you seem to be adopting the feminist position that the priesthood is some type of entitlement, so that it is "unfair" for some segments of society (like married men in your case or women in theirs, or homosexuals in yet another case) to be excluded from the priesthood.

[bigcat00]

And, lest we lose sight of the original discussion, celibacy does not cause someone to molest kids.