Vatican: U.S. Catholic Sex Scandal Was Overstated

Washington Post ^ | Friday, October 10, 2003; 4:16 PM | Reuters

[RaceBannon]

Vatican: U.S. Catholic Sex Scandal Was Overstated Reuters Friday, October 10, 2003; 4:16 PM VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The media has exaggerated a sex scandal that has shaken the U.S. Roman Catholic Church and unfairly tainted thousands of priests with overzealous coverage, Pope John Paul II's top aide said Friday. "The scandals in the United States received disproportionate attention from the media," Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano told Reuters in an interview. "There are thieves in every country, but it's hard to say that everyone is a thief."

[Conservative til I die]

If they would be so strong in supporting the word of God, instead of the manmade institutions that have stemmed from it, maybe the Church would have a fail safe, as no organisation we have on earth polices itself well.

Are you sure you're a Catholic? You're using terminology and arguments right out of the Bible-only loaded-language playbook.

[Coleus]

Most agree that this is absolutly not the case in let's say Baptist schools. >>>

No Just in Baptist churches:

CHURCH EVANGELIZERS PREYED ON LOW-INCOME KIDS.

Men from a rural Baptist church known for its aggressive evangelizing of children are suspected of molesting as many as 22 boys & girls. The associate pastor, volunteer bus driver & a third church member are believed to have fondled some & raped others, ranging in age from 3 to 10, on church buses & property. Charges involving 10 victims were brought against Associate Pastor Timothy Lee Leonard, 32, of North Sharon Baptist Church near Grass Lake, & volunteer Sunday school bus driver, church deacon Mark Foeller. Three other church members are being investigated. The suspects went to low-income housing projects or trailer parks in 4 counties, telling parents they would "take the children to church & teach them about God", according to Det. Robert Fitzpatrick, Jackson Co. Men would walk up to children in their yards, coaxing them with treats to come to weekend services or summer Bible school. Leonard was relieved of church duties involving children in August, after police started investigating him when a doctor reported suspected abuse in a child with a sexual disease. He also worked as instructor & gym teacher in the North Sharon Christian School, enrolling about 65 students. "
We have to keep our kids _safe_ from Baptist pedophiles!


* BAPTIST VOLUNTEER CONVICTED.

Granite State Baptist Church volunteer David Kirsch, 39, of Salem, was convicted of sexually assaulting 6 young girls through the church from the late 1970s to the mid-1980s.
Source: USA Today 9/25/92.

* MINISTER & GIRLFRIEND INDICTED.

Trenton pastor Franklin Tucker, 37, Final Call Ministry, was indicted for molesting his girlfriend's daughters, 9 & 15. His girlfriend was indicted for forcing her daughters to recant the allegations to police. The abuse came to light when the 9-year-old told a school official, who contacted police. Source: Trenton Times 9/15/92.

* BAPTIST PASTOR RESIGNS AMID SCANDAL.

Asheville Baptist pastor Michael R. Stewart, 34, of Oakley, resigned following his arrest in a prostitution sting. Stewart's name was among 400 on a full-page ad that month promoting family & traditional biblical values. Source:
Citizen-Times 6/30/92.

* CHURCH SUED FOR NEGLIGENCE.

One of several girls who said Alva minister Rev. Robert Bruce Brigden molested her is suing the First Presbyterian Church for failing to check his background before hiring him. Allegations of sexual crimes were made at his former position in Kansas. Charges allege that he molested Alva church girls, ages 4 to 14. The church posted his bond. Source: _Tulsa Tribune

* PRESBYTERIAN MINISTER GETS 40 YEARS.

Rev. Robert Bruce Brigden was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting young girls in his congregation, convicted on 8 counts of lewd molestation & 1 count of rape by instrumentation involving a girl, 7. Bridgen, 57, was accused of molesting 11 girls, aged 4 to 14, during the 4 years he was at the Alva church. His congregation put the church up as bond, insisting he was innocent. He was placed in protected custody. Brigden blamed his arrest on a girl, 4, whose parents were the first to take the children's allegations seriously. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned," Brigden wrote his wife about the 4-year-old, whom he described as "4 going on 400 years old", saying she invited him to spend the night in her bed, & was mad that he declined. Source: Tulsa Tribune 8/92, Tulsa World 9/3/92, _Daily Oklahoman_ 6/14/92.

* CHURCH VOLUNTEER CHARGED WITH CHILD PORNOGRAPHY.

Church volunteer Seven Jon Long, 41, was arrested for sodomy and taking pornographic pictures of young girls under 12 from Assembly of God Church in Rogue River, where he was a youth volunteer. He told detectives his pictures were art. Source: Daily Courier, Grants Pass, 4/17/92.

* CONVICTED PASTOR "RIGHT WITH LORD".

Rev. Virgil Carpenter, 48, pastor of Bible Missionary Church in Ontario, was convicted of sodomy & sexual abuse of a girl, 9, over a 1-1/2 year period. A jury convicted Carpenter of 2 felony counts of sodomy & 4 felony counts of sexual abuse. He faces 5 additional felony charges in 2 upcoming trials. "I'm really not worried," he told supporters who had gathered in the courtroom before the verdict. "I'm right with the Lord." Source: Corvallis Gazette-Times 10/11/92.

Why weren't these stories given national press coverage? Why is there a coverup of Christian pedophile ministers' crimes against America's children???

Here are 146 more examples.
http://www.reformation.com/CSA/baptistsabuse.html

Just don't blindly defend something in the Baptist Church, especially when the facts staring you in the face tell the opposite. If you do, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Right now Catholic Bashers are my problem.

[Conservative til I die]

Many Eastern Catholics, as well as the recent influx of Lutheran and Anglican converts come from a religious culture that allows for married clergy. As the Church has always done, and this is no way a bad thing, it adapts to the new peoples and cultures it encounters.

In the Western Church, celibacy has been the culture for 1500 years, so there is no need to change it for the sake of changing it.

[Coleus]

who did the buggering on the very first time of hearing it.>>>

Like this guy:

Troubled Newark reverend removed
Sex offender loses Shiloh Baptist post
Wednesday, May 07, 2003
BY WILLIAM KLEINKNECHT
Star-Ledger Staff

A convicted sex offender from Florida who was hired as pastor of Newark's Shiloh Baptist Church has been removed from the position, a state official said yesterday.

Joseph Delmar, spokesman for the state Division of Youth and Family Services, said the church informed the agency that its leaders voted Thursday to remove the Rev. Chavalis T. Williams as pastor.

DYFS was involved because Williams, as pastor, was a board member of Shiloh Rainbow Academy, the church's day care center. The agency had warned the academy that Williams could not be allowed on the day care's premises.
"We have been informed by Shiloh that the Rev. Williams is no longer employed by the church," Delmar said. "Our concerns for the safety of the children have been met."
A number of church members said John Sabb, chairman of the church's board of deacons, informed the congregation of Williams' removal at a special meeting Monday night.
Sabb declined to comment.

In 1999, Williams, then known as Chavalis Bonsell, pleaded guilty to arranging for two teenagers to have sex in front of him and others while working at a facility for troubled teens in Jacksonville, Fla. At the time of his arrest, he was on probation after pleading guilty to an earlier charge of beating his wife.

After pleading guilty to charges of child abuse and using children in a sexual performance, Williams was sentenced to six months in jail and 30 months of probation.
Shiloh's leadership knew he was a registered sex offender in Florida and hired him in mid-March, provoking outrage among some members of the congregation. Many members of the church pressed the leadership to rescind his $45,000 annual contract.

Since being hired, Williams commuted from Florida and had only been at the church on two or three occasions, relying on associate ministers for Sunday sermons. He told the congregation he was planning to relocate to New Jersey.
Williams previously declined repeated requests for a comment on his past and could not be reached yesterday.
The controversy over Williams' pastorship divided the once close-knit church, which is on Davenport Avenue in the city's North Ward and will soon be celebrating its 100th anniversary.

The church's leadership and many members of the congregation strongly supported Williams, a 27-year-old known for his inspiring sermons. Leaders of the church were irate that some members had leaked his past to the media.
But another group felt the church had been taken in by a con artist. They said Williams denied that he was a registered sex offender in Florida when he was confronted by church members and appeared to be trying to collect his pay as pastor without living in New Jersey.

[Destro]

That is a stupid argument as much as it is an incorrect argument. Western Catholic clergy were married right up till the middle ages. In fact the Catholic Church forced many preists to give up their wives and turn their children into bastards. Yet it was ok for Eastern Churches? Actually it only became ok for Eastern Catholics when the Vatican began to try and take Orthodox away from the East and allowed married clergy for that purpose. The invention of the Uniate movement had the Vatican revise its marriage stance for clergy when it came to the Eastern churches.

[RaceBannon]

Good, but they should have thrown him into jail. Or back in jail

What most Catholics dont understand on this, though, is that there is NO national office to formally transfer someone around for 90% of other denominations. My church is independant, that means we only answer to ourselves and God, like the Bible teaches, no hierarchy to tell us what to do.

If the RCC exercised policy like that, these perverts would not be hidden as they did.

Unfortunately, there will always be perverts. My arguement is when a religion protects them as policy. This Shiloh Baptist Church is not a religion, it is an infdependant Church, and they tossed him out when discovered.

"After pleading guilty to charges of child abuse and using children in a sexual performance, Williams was sentenced to six months in jail and 30 months of probation.
Shiloh's leadership knew he was a registered sex offender in Florida and hired him in mid-March, provoking outrage among some members of the congregation. Many members of the church pressed the leadership to rescind his $45,000 annual contract.
"

"The church's leadership and many members of the congregation strongly supported Williams, a 27-year-old known for his inspiring sermons. Leaders of the church were irate that some members had leaked his past to the media.
But another group felt the church had been taken in by a con artist. They said Williams denied that he was a registered sex offender in Florida when he was confronted by church members and appeared to be trying to collect his pay as pastor without living in New Jersey.
"

That says it all, let that church split, seems that God is no longer in it anyways.

[RaceBannon]

We are not talking about Child abuse, we are talking about a systematic coverup of this abuse by a religion in a formal manner, to even tell the faithful that it is not a big deal.

[saradippity]

Wow,pretty incredible numbers on that apparently current list of abusing Baptist clergy on that link you provided. I am stunned,one could infer from the information that the problem is far greater among Baptist clergy than Cathollic.Even though they are the largest Protestant denomination,they are far,far smaller in numbers than Catholics.

I hope this information will cause many of the vehement,mean detractors,to sit up and take notice and work together with us to change the prevailing culture in the United States rather than gleefully invite us to their church and burn and pillage our own.(Thats an "if the shoe fits wear it" statement).

Sinkspur,take special note,all of these Baptist clergy could be married if they chose and many,many were.So you can scratch off any references to combatting the "problem" of abuse in your reasons why priests should marry. It would only exacerbate the problem. That is,unless you are more interested in equal oppurtunity to be abused.

[saradippity]

Destro,your facts are not correct regards the official documents. Although in practice the official position was often ignored.Nonetheless,a preference for celibate priesthood can be traced back to Christ,and very early documents show that even if some were married,they were to be continent.

[Destro]

I am sorry I can not accept that. I accept the Pope's primacy in the West but the official position is flawed and is a later innovation. It is also telling that married clergy are acceptable in one rgeard in the East but not in the West. Such a condition was once found in the West as well.

Catholic priests have not always been forbidden marriage. In fact, up to about the 10 century many were married. However several problems arose over married clergy.A major problem was one of inheritance. In a world that had the eldest son inheriting his fathers wealth, the Church saw its lands and even some of its churches fall into the hands of sons who cared little for the Church.

This was a problem because the West had been ruled by Germanic tribes which had certain porperty inheritance views that weakened Papal claims to churches. The East never had those problems being that they continued the system set up by Constantine in which churches and their property belonged to the Church organization and could not be handed down as personal property from father to son.

In fact the in 325, the Council of Nicea, convened by Constantine, rejected a ban on priests marrying requested by Spanish clerics. The Council of Nicea's rulings bind all Christians including those under the Pope's jurisdiction.

The Catholic Church distinguishes between dogma and regulations. The male-only priesthood is Catholic dogma, irreversible by papal decree. The ban on marriage is considered a regulation. As Knight-Ridder put it, "That means the pope could change it overnight if he wished."

http://hnn.us/articles/696.html

[sinkspur]

The problem, sara, was never the NUMBER of priests, large or small, who abused.

The scandal was caused by bishops who COVERED-UP for them, transferring them to new parishes, or, as an AP article said today, trying to hide them in chaplaincies in the military.

Baptists fire their pedophiles; we can't do that.

[Coleus]

What most Catholics don't understand on this, though, is that there is NO national office to formally transfer someone around for 90% of other denominations. My church is independent>>>

Of course we do, what do you think we live in a cave or something. We work with and assoiciate with Protestants everywhere, some of us even have Protestant relatives.

If the RCC exercised policy like that, these perverts would not be hidden as they did.>>>

That's right and if I can use the word "good" it's one good thing that came about of this scandal. Now things are different, many dioceses adopted a policy like the Boy Scouts and are using it in all the parishe staff and volunteers who deal with youth. Dioceses now have strict guidelines and child services are called if an allegation is brought forward.

Also, I don't only put blame on the church, I blame parents who never called the police and accepted "hush" money. If the parents of these victims went public with the child protective services, police and newspapers, many would have been exposed and stopped.

[Colosis]

I could name you cases of systematic cover-up by protestant organisations but I don’t think that is the point. This issue is massive here in Ireland and it is tearing the soul out of RC and their followers, you’ll be happy to know. It will cost every man, woman and child $1000 next year in taxpayers money to pay compensation to the alleged victims of child abuse by the religious orders in the 50’s and 60's, long before I was born. More, no doubt, to come in the future. Rape is rape and abuse is abuse and I believe the perpetrators of these acts of evil are evil.

BUT, the enquiry into events 40 years ago is not fair. A hysterical media coupled with the usual band of socialist elites have spearheaded this campaign and the now old and infirm accused is not afforded the same ‘guilty until proven innocent’ protection as other accused citizens. Tribunals are being set up which enrich the lawyers at our expense. No clergyman will go to trial and the accusations of 10,000 victims will go unchallenged, each to receive a massive cash payout. It’s open season for anyone with a gripe in the 50’s. It’s just a pity the real victims are not going to get real justice in a real court.

I was educated by nuns, and I’ll always be thankful to them for that. They beat the hell out of the teachers we have now that went on strike three times last year – what was their great cause? Entry level salaries of $40,000.

I believe in good and evil. I just hope evil does not prevail this time, and the paedophiles do not destroy the RC church.

[saradippity]

I have read everything you have said before,and as with almiost everything there is some truth in what you say. This has been discussed on these threads and many who are more computer literate and theologically knowledgeable than me have presented information which I followed and checked and found to be more detailed and correct with regards the early church than yours,although again I say you have some information that is correct.

So as with many things,I as others have done,have read scriptures,alone and in context, looked at Tradition and followed the Popes and teaching Magisterium and concluded that celibacy for priests has always been the intent,but is one of those "hard things to bear".

Recognizing it is a discipline and subject to possible change,I will,if the Pope and Magisterium decide to change it,abide by their teaching. Until then I am firmly convinced that it is one of the true gifts Christ,through the Holy Spirit has given to His Church.

[Destro]

One of the true gifts Christ,through the Holy Spirit has given to His Church was the Council of Nicea, convened by Constantine in 326 A.D. which rejected a ban on priests marrying.

[saradippity]

My comment to your was not addressing who you held responsible for the scandal.It was pointing out that non-cellibate clergy had as many if not more problems than celibates.

Baptists fire their pedophiles,we can't do that.

If you would read through the cases on Coleus's link,you would find the first part of the statement is not necessarily true,furthermore there is no way of keeping track of what happens to many of them after they are fired. If you would keep track of our cases you would find that many of the priests were "fired" so to speak.

[lupie]

Yep, the sex scandal in the Church is because we aren't IFBs. Of course.

What is IFB? I don't understand what you are saying here in your answer to me. I am sorry that you feel the need to be sarcastic. If you weren't, I apologize for thinking you were.

[Ant_biter]

Allow me to quote some biblical verses.

Luke 14: 26 If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. 27 Whoever does not carry his cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

Luke 18: 28 Then Peter said, “We have given up our possessions and followed you.” 29 He said to them, “Amen, I say to you, there is no one who has given up house or wife or brothers, or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 who will not receive an overabundant return in this present age and eternal life in the age to come.”

Similar quotations can also be found in Matthew 19: 27-30 and Mark 10: 28-31. Why get married if one intents to give up his wife and children? Christ must have encourage his disciples to do so, otherwise he will not reward them with ‘overabundant return in this present age and eternal life in the age to come.”

Is it fair to say that Protestants will tell our lord, ‘No way, not my wife” and start to criticize those Catholics who do follow and obey him? I wonder why they still called themselves “bible-only” Christians? Also, our lord did not include the word “husband” in these statements, is it safe to say here that he never intended women to be on the roles of his disciples.

[Ant_biter]

Matthew 13: 27 The slaves of the householder came to him and said, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?’ 28 He answered, ‘An enemy has done this.’ His slaves said to him, “Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ 29 He replied, “No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them. 30. . .

ACTS 20 28 Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock. 30 And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.

Please do not expect all members of the perfect church to be perfect. Otherwise, the above two and many other verses as well could be meaningless. Although , we have the duties to expose the faults of its members but we should also avoide using our current constantly increased knowledge and understanding to judge the past events. It is just like judging a silent film or the computer which you bought 5 years ago.

[BunnySlippers]

(1). They wrongly reported the incidents as 'pedohpilia', when in fact it was a homosexual problem.

While I agree that the problem is homosexual in nature, many, many of the victims were young boys ... 10,11,12 and up. The problem has not been exaggerated. Instead, the Catholic Church has stalled and diminished the scope of the problem.