Vatican: U.S. Catholic Sex Scandal Was Overstated

Washington Post ^ | Friday, October 10, 2003; 4:16 PM | Reuters

[Criminal Number 18F]

The media's anti-Christian agenda is evident, as always. But the Catholic Church sure made this one easy for them.

That just about sums it up. The church is so overcome with liberal toleration of buggery, that it didn't see, and it still doesn't see, that it was doing wrong.

But the media... oh, brother. I'm not Catholic, but it's glaringly clear that loathing of Catholics is mainstream media-think. I think the trigger is abortion, which is the Received Truth of the Atheistic Media, but you never know with haters, just what it was that set them off.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[WhistlingPastTheGraveyard]

I think the trigger is abortion

Bingo.

[grania]

The media will not play up the fact that this crisis is a result of not only the acceptance of homosexuality, but actually the promotion of said lifestyle.

The Church never officially accepted homosexuality or pedophilia. One would have expected the Church and its leadership to lead the way even when society errs. The more society's values fall apart, the more necessary it becomes for the Church to be a beacon.

Defenses of what happened, even if it had been even one coverup, instead of a pattern, show that the problem still is far from solution.

[Just mythoughts]

Well it looks like the cover-up just went international right to the "HEAD".

That is why "being saved" is an individual thing, that is why it is written that the preacher/priest/revs are forming that judgment line first. Like how when Christ died that veil in the temple that hid the priest was "RENT" from TOP to bottom.

I know, I know, the pope is sick and these are someone else's words, right.

[Just mythoughts]

Hello, you don't mean to blame a victim.

From birth these kids are taught to worship these people, they have to come to them and tell alllllll their sins, you know, you tell all your dirty little secrets to someone and they own you.

These people are suppose to be representing "CHRIST" and without these people these children don't have "CHRIST".

OH, but the control that gives to the perverts and that is what they use and count on to give them access to the innocence of a child.

Somehow this should open some peoples eyes that Christ did not intend for people to have to go through "flesh man" to have access to HIM.

Judgment begins at the House of God.

[RaceBannon]

Now, if you want to address the parents who didn't go to the cops, immediately, fine. But that ain't me, and it's not 99.9995% of the Catholics here, or anywhere. We're disgusted by it, more than you are.

If you were 1/10th as disgusted as I am, you would not be defending a system that hides pedophiles, you would be demanding the Police arrest them.

If you were 1/5th as disgusted as I am, you would not be defending a system that hides pedophiles, you would be marching against them

If you were 1/4th as disgusted as I am, you would not be defending the system that hides pedophiles, you would be writing letters to the editor demanding the Police raid the Bishops offices, demanding that Priests never be left alone with Children at all ever again, and calling on the Government to investigate the Bishops in a full disclosure, vowing to never let this happen again.

If you were 1/2 as disgusted as me, you would be standing up during the Church service, demanding that the Priests answer questions, demanding the Bishops be brought forward, and publically threatening them with citizen arrest if the slightest things are found wrong, with all church members demanding to see the money books to see where their donations actually go and demand accountability for all things within the church

But, you didn't.

And none of what I said has anything to do with what I believe my faith is as defined as the Bible. It is just common sense. It is just a man's response to scandal, quite a bit like what we do here about a government employee who only steals your money.

These people are buggering your children.

I guess that's your agenda. And you call me pathetic? You say you would come back with a shotgun against a person, yet this has proven to be an entire system of coverups! And you defend it???

And since when is a place where children are buggered and housing the buggerers a PLACE OF THE ALMIGHTY? You got a strange God.

And if you cant recognize how innocent Catholics are allowing this to happen through their silence only shows you only want to defend the very system that created this buggering, allowed it to continue, defended the buggerers, and is now telling the faithful that it is no big deal.

And they did it on purpose. And they did it repeatedly. And they told the faithful to ignore it. And you defend this?

You would leave your job for much less.

You are truly a sick man. Get help.

[RaceBannon]

What most RCC fail to see or admit, is that most people in those churches left those churches, or at the very least arrested the perverts who did the buggering on the very first time of hearing it. Not transferring them around the country to hide this perversion.

Great difference.

[RaceBannon]

It seems to me that there might be evidence to discredit the Pope. Every time the "Vatican" speaks, it is not necessarily the Pope, but more likely his underlings, who, by their own short-sightedness [I'm being generous here], end up smearing the Pope. This is VERY unfortunate.

Does it have to be the Pope?

The Pope does not make all laws or rules within the church and you guys know that.

I dont know how you guys can stay there, I really dont.

[RaceBannon]

If a high school teacher is caught molesting a student and is sent to another school without the school knowing about it, but it is later found out, should we suspect ALL teachers? No! We should be rightly angry with the administration that let it slide, but again, I would ask, where was law enforcement, where was the justice system?

No, but every person who was in that school system that transferred this pervert would be fired and maybe arrested for conspiring to hide a pervert. In fact, someone who has a record of sexual questionability is illegal to work with children in schools.

Obviously it cannot be all priests. But is IS the entire system that hides them.

Any secular organization would fire all these people and replace them. From the top down. Only , like this article says, the only official responses we hear from the Vatican are, "Dont Worry, Be Happy"?

[SuziQ]

No, but every person who was in that school system that transferred this pervert would be fired and maybe arrested for conspiring to hide a pervert

If only that were so. There was a case just in the last few years in Amherst where a teacher was transferred because of 'improprieties'. Nothing was done, as far as I know, to either the teacher, principal OR Superintendent. It happens, we just usually don't hear about it.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

My point was that nobody knew how to handle this stuff effectively;

BULL.

Becky

[AmericaUnited]

The Scandal was overblown in the Socialist/Secular Humanist Press where they will stop at nothing to destroy the RCC and where they failed to report that all faiths (including married clergymen) had the same problems.

Most agree that homosexuals have completely taken over a majority of Catholic seminary schools. Most agree that this is absolutly not the case in let's say Baptist schools.

Just don't blindly defend something, especially when the facts staring you in the face tell the opposite. If you do, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[nina0113]

during a mere six year period, (from 1996 to 2002), there were over 600 teachers and principles convicted or punished for sexually abusing minors in the state of Texas alone.

Can you source that for me? Every time I've seen a mention of a teacher getting caught, it's been written up in the back of the Metro section, in one or two paragraphs, and never mentioned again. I have no idea where to find a total count on them.

[bigcat00]

I'd point out the following:

1. Being a pervert has nothing to do with celibacy. I work around the prison system and have talked to lots of child molestors and the people who treat them. None of the ones I have met have taken vows of celibacy. Most were married at one time or another. I believe the percentage of married Proestant clergy who have committed the same type of crime are about the same as Catholic clergy. It is a fallacy that a frustrated sex drive leads one to molest little kids.

And, how many married Protestant clergy anyd laymen have committed adultery, or wanted to?

2. At least part of the problem might be the way Catholic seminaries operate (not talking about the homosexual issue here - yet, anyway). I admit that I am speculating in part, but let me relate my own experience, and hope that a priest who has been through this might comment. I attended a fairly well known evangelical seminary before I became a Catholic. All of the students there were college grads, and most were pretty high achievers academically. Some were in their 30s and 40s, many had families, lots had already had other jobs. In contrast, lots of Catholic young men start on the seminary track right after they graduate from high school. I think this might have the effect of not giving them enough exposure to the rest of the world before they decide to become priests. Some of them may not be fit to be priests, but they are already on the priest track and to bail at that point means, in their minds at least, admitting an embarassing failure spiritually. I don't think an 18 year old kid knows whether he is supposed to be a priest (there may be exceptions, but for the most part I don't think God's in a hurry).

This doesn't mean they will become child molestors. I don't think that is the case at all. It may make it easier for them to look the other way when one of their fellows does something inappropriate.

By the same token, I know lots of priets who have been through the current system who are just fine. Most are deeply spiritual, highly educated, men. But a reform of the seminary system should be considered.

3. Anyone - including priests - who molests a kid deserves punishment to the full extent of the law, and beyond. Any priest or other clergyman who abuses his office should be punished. The failure of some church officials to root out and punish such priests is something they should have to answer for here before the secular authorities and something that they will have to answer for in front of God.

4. At the same time, this problem is hardly unique to Catholics. Someone suggested in an earlier post that schools wouldn't pass around teachers who molest kids the way that the RC church has done with priests. When the person has been convicted of a crime, this is true. Before he is, ie, when he has been only accused or suspected, it happens. I have the unfortunate experience in my own extended Protestant family of someone who found a job teaching in public schools and private schools who had engaged in criminal sexual activity with a minor (who, with his/her parents, decided not to press charges) and, while teaching at an evangelical college, with at least one student there. In fact, I can think of at least two men who taught at the evangelical college I attended who were accused of having had affairs with students.

There is, in other words, an institutional aspect to the problem. In any institution or organization, be it government, a corporation, or whatever, there is a tendency to try to CYA and cover up problems. The RC Church is more institutionalized than most other churches. That may be part of the problem. It's human nature at work. Being institutionalized and organized also allows an entity it to actually do more than it could accomplish otherwise, so that fact itself is not all bad.

I recall what a Lutheran friend of mine said once when he was telling me about some scandal in the Lutheran school of which he was a board member. He said that his evangelical friends were scandalized when he told them about the goings on there, which as I recall involved embezzlement and maybe an affair of some kind. He said that as Lutherans, they just expected some people to behave badly once in a while. I think that is a pretty realistic expectation (and no, I'm not knocking Lutherans). Now, molesting a kid goes beyond that, but the tendendy to want to cover up problems should be no surprise, as wrong as it is. It is common to all institutions.

5. One of the reasons that the sex abuse story became a big one was the money involved. The RC church has a lot of money. If the pastor of the little house church down the street molests a kid (I know of such a case)there won't likely be a big lawsuit if he is judgment-proof, that is, if he has no money and the church has no money. If it is the RC Church, it is presumed that there is alot of money.
Unfortunately, the big settlements take money away from the legimate work of the church. The victims deserve justice, and the perps should go to prison. Those who participate in a cover-up should also go to prison. Whether or not justice is ultimately served by a big financial pay-out to the victims and their self-serving lawyers is another question.

6. Another aspect of this is the idea in some Protestant circles that the sheep and the goats are seperated now instead of at the last judgment. Catholics tend to expect the church to contain good people and bad people, and that God will sort them out in the End. Protestants of the more evangelical and fundamentalist variety, tend to expect their churches to contain only people who have been "saved," and therefore to be good only. Thus, when they hear about scandals in the Cahtolic church they condemn the entire institution. There are some fundamental differences of opinion about what the Church is and is supposed to be at work in the formation of opinion about this issue.

7. Some of the media - and others - seem to think that anyone who is merely accused of sexual improprieties should be removed from the priesthood. Recall the case of Cardinal Bernadin, who was too liberal in my opinion, but who was accused of molesting a young man. The young man on his death bed, dying of AIDS, admitted the accusation was false.

[nmh]

I was referring the upper echelon church leaders. They are trying to minimize it. I know some Catholics DO try to minimize it but apparently you don't and that's good!

[ladyjane]

And the press has ignored the huge numbers of pedophilia cases by teachers, doctors, lawyers, etc

The difference is the American Bar Association, AMA, and NEA didn't engage in a large scale pay off scheme and coverup.

[Colosis]

What are your thoughts on protestant child abuse? I hope it’s as unequivocal as RC child abuse, or is it?

[TheCrusader]

"during a mere six year period, (from 1996 to 2002), there were over 600 teachers and principles convicted or punished for sexually abusing minors in the state of Texas alone."

"Can you source that for me? Every time I've seen a mention of a teacher getting caught, it's been written up in the back of the Metro section, in one or two paragraphs, and never mentioned again. I have no idea where to find a total count on them."

"What happens when faith in our teachers is broken?"

05/04/2003

By Diane Jennings and Robert Tharp /

(excerpted from): The Dallas Morning News

"Ms. Vincent is one of at least 600 Texas educators disciplined in the last eight years for sexual misconduct, mostly involving children, according to state records analyzed by The Dallas Morning News. And state regulators warn that the count likely understates the problem because of districts' failure to report incidents".

"The teachers' misdeeds translate into hundreds of kids abused by the very people entrusted with their care each day. And long after, the damage lingers."

"Sometimes I still can't believe that it really happened. I can't believe that I let it, but there was nothing I could do," one teenager said in a victim's statement, referring to sexual abuse by her volleyball coach. "Nobody should have to go through what I have. I am now trying to rebuild my life, but this is so difficult. No matter how hard I try, I cannot erase the memories, the pain, heartache, the abuse. It will haunt me for along [sic] time to come."

"State and local officials' efforts to keep abusive teachers out of Texas public schools appear spotty at best. Cases at the state level can take years to resolve, and discipline, when meted out, often appears inconsistent, according to The News' study of records from the State Board of Educator Certification, the agency overseeing teacher discipline."

"Some registered sex offenders have not lost their licenses but have received lengthy suspensions, allowing them to apply for reinstatement and return to the classroom."

"A grand jury declined to indict Ms. Vincent. But the married mother lost her teaching license after admitting the relationship. Other teachers who did the same thing have been suspended for a few years. Even after a teacher loses her license, as Ms. Vincent did, she can move on to a nonteaching position. And a license once revoked may be later reinstated."

"There's a serious breakdown in our system," said Kelt Cooper, an Arizona school superintendent who worked in several Texas school districts and who has testified as an expert witness in educator abuse cases. "It's time people take a position on this thing [and] acknowledge how deep this goes."

"Recognizing that a problem exists is difficult. Kids don't want to admit they've been victimized; parents feel guilty that they sent their child to a molester each day; and school officials, haunted by the prospect of sexually abused children or falsely accused teachers, just want it to go away."

"At first, the abuser's interest in a student may appear benign."

"I looked up to her as role model and friend. As time passed, we began to talk more," said the student who was abused by her volleyball coach. "The closer that I became to her, the more I seemed to push my other friends away."

The relationship became increasingly intimate. The coach kissed her. "I didn't know what to think. I was grossed out and confused," the victim said in her statement. Then came "making out," and later, while they were watching a movie at home, the coach caressed her "private area."

"I did not know what to do or say," the girl said. Later, "she told me she was trying to make me orgasm, which I had never heard of in my whole life."

[TheCrusader]

"BULL"

There are lots of bulls in Texas, and, unfortunately, at least 800% more sexual abuse of children by teachers there than by priests in the entire U.S. After reading the article below this becomes an inescapable conclusion. Over six hundred teachers convicted or punished for sexual abuse of a minor in one state, in just eight years, as compared to less than 400 priests in the entire nation, over a thirty year period.

Like I said, the Church's sex abuse problems are microscopic compared to the rest of society, but the media seems to be engaged in a rather vigorous and widescale campaign to saturate us with the Church's problems while ignoring the very same problem that exists on a much grander scale in our public schools.

So I ask yet again, what is the media fascination with the comparatively small sex abuse problems in the Catholic Church, and why do they ignore the much larger national problem in secular society?

---

"What happens when faith in our teachers is broken?"

05/04/2003

By Diane Jennings and Robert Tharp /

(excerpted from): The Dallas Morning News

"Ms. Vincent is one of at least 600 Texas educators disciplined in the last eight years for sexual misconduct, mostly involving children, according to state records analyzed by The Dallas Morning News. And state regulators warn that the count likely understates the problem because of districts' failure to report incidents".

"The teachers' misdeeds translate into hundreds of kids abused by the very people entrusted with their care each day. And long after, the damage lingers."

"Sometimes I still can't believe that it really happened. I can't believe that I let it, but there was nothing I could do," one teenager said in a victim's statement, referring to sexual abuse by her volleyball coach. "Nobody should have to go through what I have. I am now trying to rebuild my life, but this is so difficult. No matter how hard I try, I cannot erase the memories, the pain, heartache, the abuse. It will haunt me for along [sic] time to come."

"State and local officials' efforts to keep abusive teachers out of Texas public schools appear spotty at best. Cases at the state level can take years to resolve, and discipline, when meted out, often appears inconsistent, according to The News' study of records from the State Board of Educator Certification, the agency overseeing teacher discipline."

"Some registered sex offenders have not lost their licenses but have received lengthy suspensions, allowing them to apply for reinstatement and return to the classroom."

"A grand jury declined to indict Ms. Vincent. But the married mother lost her teaching license after admitting the relationship. Other teachers who did the same thing have been suspended for a few years. Even after a teacher loses her license, as Ms. Vincent did, she can move on to a nonteaching position. And a license once revoked may be later reinstated."

"There's a serious breakdown in our system," said Kelt Cooper, an Arizona school superintendent who worked in several Texas school districts and who has testified as an expert witness in educator abuse cases. "It's time people take a position on this thing [and] acknowledge how deep this goes."

"Recognizing that a problem exists is difficult. Kids don't want to admit they've been victimized; parents feel guilty that they sent their child to a molester each day; and school officials, haunted by the prospect of sexually abused children or falsely accused teachers, just want it to go away."

"At first, the abuser's interest in a student may appear benign."

"I looked up to her as role model and friend. As time passed, we began to talk more," said the student who was abused by her volleyball coach. "The closer that I became to her, the more I seemed to push my other friends away."

The relationship became increasingly intimate. The coach kissed her. "I didn't know what to think. I was grossed out and confused," the victim said in her statement. Then came "making out," and later, while they were watching a movie at home, the coach caressed her "private area."

"I did not know what to do or say," the girl said. Later, "she told me she was trying to make me orgasm, which I had never heard of in my whole life."

[John_11_25]

I take any poster who has scripture in his screename with a grain of salt

I am a Catholic. I follow the book to the best of my human ability and am torn apart when members of my faith, who should know better, cannot "Walk the Talk".

It also upsets me when other members of my faith will not condem a clear wrong.

If they would be so strong in supporting the word of God, instead of the manmade institutions that have stemmed from it, maybe the Church would have a fail safe, as no organisation we have on earth polices itself well.

As in other religions, we have the fundementalists too.

However most fundementalists take the Word of God literally and any manmade organisation that deems themselves better then the Word of God, would be in very serious danger.

It seems our fundermentalists seem to support the manmade organisations, whatever it does and seem to forget the organisation is here to spread and defend the word of God with all their might and not to defend the organisation.

We have a come a long way since the Christians would rather be fed to the lions than renounce their faith in God and his Word.