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To: Fester Chugabrew
My questions to those who read this article: How does the Christian principle of martyrdom compare to that of the Muslim? How does this article impinge upon controversies surrounding materialistic ideologies, specifially naturalistic evolution?

In The Rebirth of Orthodoxy, Thomas C. Oden writes in a subchapter entitled, "Is Orthodoxy Merely the Skewed Memory of Winners?" some interesting comments on martyrs. He points out how within the Enlightenment tainted church the Marxist, or "social-location" arguement, presumes strongly that Orthodoxy is merely the "history of a powerful majority." He says:

Suppose the Montanus and Marcion, for example, were as right apostolically and doctrinally as their "orthodox" opponents but lacked the muscle -- no army, no police -- with which to coerce their position. Suppose that the winners, were by definition labeled as ortodox and the losers by definition as heretics. If that were the case, the history of orthodoxy would be nothing more than the history of a powerful majority: it would not be the history of truth.

The above suppositions reflect a standard sophomore classroom objection to orthodoxy. The most familiar form of that arguement is the Marxist or social-location arguement, which challenges religious judgements on the premise that they can always be shown to come from some particular social location or vested interest within the economic order. The Marxist explanation of orthodoxy was simple: economic interests prevailed. Ideological winners imposed their views on ideological losers coercively--a matter of power. Though Marxism is now in disrepute, dreary echoes of the Marxist explanation still linger--oddly enough, in university departments of religious studies, of all places.

Vincent of Lerins, a fifth century monk about whom much will be told in later chapters, provided the classic answer to the social-location arguement: the arguement from martyrdom. As Vincent noted, it is self-evident that the martyrs had no economic interest. Their willingness to give their lives for the truth showed their contempt for all economic interests....

It is sad that the witness of the defenseless Christian martyrs has been clouded in our time by Islamic Activists who chose brutally to kill others while themselves dying. These are not analogous cases. On the contrary, the former case dies to attest the truth; the later dies intentionally to hurt and kill. Islamic suicide killers are not adequate or faithfull representatives of the faith of historic Islam. Christian martyrs, on the other hand, profoundly attest the deep faith of Christianity.


11 posted on 10/10/2003 7:39:29 AM PDT by KC Burke
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To: betty boop; cornelis
bump
12 posted on 10/10/2003 7:41:04 AM PDT by KC Burke
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To: KC Burke
Thanks for the post.

Hard to believe any rebirth of Orthodoxy is happening around here. From my perspective a good many things theological are going straight down the tubes.

Are we translating correctly when we use the word "martyr" in connection with Muslims? The Arabic word . . . what is it? Hopefully someone will chime in with a little expertise.

18 posted on 10/10/2003 9:31:04 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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